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Author | Topic: Atheism is a belief (Why Atheists don't believe part 2) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
A continuation of this thread:
Why Atheists don't believe Ok, ready for this one? This quote from jar sparked a thought in my head, and I will try to explain it to you.
I can't think of a single reason for an atheist to believe in a God. There isn't any really good verifiable evidence there is one, or any strong reason to suppose there might be a God. Most atheists I've had dealings with seem to be pretty reasonable, rational individual, and if they were presented with overwhelming evidence that GOD existed, then would likely accept that fact. But until presented with such evidence, why should they believe? I will agree that most atheists are pretty reasonable, ok no prejudice here, now on with it. Why should they believe? Well the bible clearly states, that it is faith that gets you your evidence. I am going to make the claim that atheism is a belief, and here is why. You have a thought, you express the thought, someone can choose to believe it or not. We went over that in the previous thread. Some atheists take some things on faith, without evidence, or checking on the evidence. Now the thought is God. You can choose to believe it or not. You can look for evidence, and you may find none. You may find only subjective evidence. But either way, you have chosen not to believe in God. This does not mean there is no God. We are only unable to prove His existence objectively. So you have chosen to believe there is no God. You cannot prove that there is no God, so it is a belief. A belief backed by lack of empirical evidence, fine. Let's reverse roles. You are trying to convince me that there is no God. I say to you prove it. You can't. The only way you could be a true atheist, is if you have never heard the word God, and you have no inner feeling that there is one. The thought has never crossed your mind. I hate it when an atheist tries to portray himself as someone like that, when it is just not the case. There is more to the thought, it goes on to the mathematical possibility of God, but I guess I should stop it here. Edited by AdminNWR, : fixed link ([thread=-14,1406] in place of [thread=1406] )
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Rodger that.
I figured it was covered already somewhere, but since the first part went pretty well, and it was in the coffee house, I just figured I continue it there. But I guess I switched gears on it a little.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I don`t understand that. It seems that an inner feeling that there is no god would be enough Sure it's enough, I can relate to that, but that makes it a belief.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I would argue that a dyed in the wool atheist simply does not accept this arbitary collection of writings as factual. I have heard all too many times atheist complain, "well if God exists, then He should come down and show us, and maybe correct all the mistakes of the world, blah blah" I used to complain the same thing. The bible is factual evidence, because He did come down and show us how to do it, we as a race, have just choossen not to. To me it is more than just anecdotal evidence, it has become fact in my life, but you will call it subjective.
We are born with no concept of the xian god. We learn about it, we examine whether the balance of evidence would support the hypothesis that your god exist and we regect or accept it. That is exactly what I said. You reject or accept it. (although it's not as simple as that) so you have made a choice to believe in something else.
I woulds argue that people who do not believe in gods and demons and spirits and all manner of superstitious thought (JP Sartre called it Magical Thinking I seem to recall - my Psychology comes back to me in fits and starts ) are only willing to accept more reliable and valid (in the scientific sense) data than believers. After learning what I have learned, through the bible, and teachings of the Holy Spirit, I disagree with you. note: I hate superstitions.
If you chose to change the default position from non belief You cannot qualify that statement. Non-belief just doesn't seem to happen, because no matter what society, there is some kind of God. At some point people were born believing there is something out there.You were not born like this(default position of non-belief), you were shown some choices, so you cannot be an atheist. If you were never shown these choices, and you did not think something was out there, then you'd be an atheist.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Yes because it is - it's subjective unless you (like Iano) want to just* redefine words on the fly. To me I find nothing subjective about Jesus promising us the Holy Spirit, and me recieving it.
Your god is not out there You've said this about a bazillion times on this forum. So back it up.You can't prove it, so it's nothing more than your belief. So it's not so much a belief that god doesn't exist but just that at this present moment he/she/it seems to be absence. Or you haven't sought after Him enough. He is there, you just don't see Him. It's all there waiting for you. It's aparent in your responses, when you say things like "your god". It's not my god that you need to find, it's your God.
* as an aside - I notice that alot, the religious here want to redefine words to include all sorts of things. Scientology is very keen on that practice. See, you look for God in religions, a big mistake IMO.Obviously scientology is not where you will find God.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Welcome randy to the forum!
Yes very prejudice! ???
Sorry no, faith never a present from santa made. This seems to be a prgramed response about whether God exists or not. IT's getting tiresome. You'll have to do some more reading in these forums, as we have covered topics like that. It is plainly obvious why santa doesn't exist and to refer to it is childish.
Go ahead, uniformed opinions never make truths. Like santa.
Sorry, cannot think of one thing that I take on faith blindly. Thank you, that is the response I was looking for.
A choice between superstition or reality. Define reality.
No sorry no voices in my head. Who said anything about voices? One thing I think we can all admit to is that we seek the truth.We are born that way. So you also think your a mind reader? Another pre-programmed response that they must teach in college these days.
Is not hateful feelings opposite of what you are suppose to follow? I can hate, I am human.
Does it bother you that athiest are more secure in life than you seem to be? That is an illusion, and an immature response. Don't pretend to me, or any other "religious person" because I hate religon.
Please don't stop.I would love to see these mathmatical possibilities and how you arrived at the answers. The possibilities that we exist are slim and none, but we are hear. Do like the evolutionist do, and just throw the term "millions of years" and you have an answer for anything. While it is "plainly" obvious how long the universe has been around, what was here before it, and what evolved into God as we know it? Look how far we've come in just such a short time. We are little gods.Why can't God be a possibility? ou want to see one reason that some athiest do not believe,read back through yours iano faith and buzsaws post. That's a piss poor exuse to not believe in God, I won't accept it. We are not gods, we are just like you.
I have never believed period. Ah, but have you ever wondered?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
It's still an entirely subjective point of view. Then everything is subjective as we can only look at things through our own mind, even tests performed outside of our minds.
death and a body rotting in the ground is what is waiting for us all. Why?
I'm trying to avoid saying "god" (singular) because even you christians (each of you claiming to be TRUE CHRISTIAN) all seem to be following slightly different versions and I'm trying to avoid confusion. Being a "true christian" does not make any of us Jesus.The variations are because we are all different people, plainly obvious. Jesus was one person, Son of God, the only "true Christian" IMO. I put myself on the same level as you, because ultimately, I just don't know what will happen in the end.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
SEeking God's guidance and approval may be different that what you think it is, and you may be doing it already.
I like your attitude.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
In the same way you cannot be logical about why some one has faith you cant look for a logical reason that some one is an atheist .. they just are .. Again, I am saying this is not a default position. Would you agree that we are all born seeking the truth?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Personally, I don't think it is useful to consider the lack of belief in a concept you have been exposed to as a belief in its own right. Not only lack of belief, but an inability to prove that God doesn't exist.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I believe consciousness is a product of the human brain; no brain = no consciousness. Ask you a question. Since time travel may be a possibility, or at least going back in time...So you die, your consious ceases to exist. Someone goes back in time and there you are!! How can this be? Edited by riVeRraT, : typing error Edited by riVeRraT, : typing
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Of course,we know that they had the wrong kind of faith because the book they read from is not the right one eh? I will not judge the terroist, but ask yourself, do you need a book to tell you that was wrong?
Perhaps you need to clarify what you consider faith to be? Faith is you.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Unfortunately for your argument, "God" can be replaced with any fictional character of your liking. This is just not true. They recieve the label fictional, because of just that.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Atheism has no tenets, no dogmas, and no followers. Atheism lacks all those things. In fact, 'lacking' is the defining feature of atheism: the only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods. I disagree with that. In college they seem to present a case against God.If you go to a Christian college, you would find the opposite. There seems to be dogma asociated with atheism, but they will never openly admit to it. When a professor in college stands in front of a class, and says "prove God exists" you got dogma.
When I close my eyes and try to imagine seeing the colour red, I experience redness without any real light coming into play. So I think that redness is a purely subjective conscious experience that takes place in our brain. Seeing light of a certain wavelength is one thing, experiencing redness is another. I agree.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 739 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
em.. because you traveled back in time to when that entity existed? When? If you can travel back in time and see it, then it always exists. That makes us eternal. How can you bring back to life what is already dead?
By that logic - if you lived in a time when Jesus never existed and you traveled back further in time and Jesus wasn't there - Jesus never existed! ???? I was only presenting going back in time, since it seems to becoming a reality. Going forward in time, may also be a reality, and would be part of the same logic.
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