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Author Topic:   Atheism is a belief (Why Atheists don't believe part 2)
Phat
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Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 131 of 302 (315765)
05-28-2006 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Larni
05-24-2006 8:52 AM


Why the default position is as it is
Larni writes:
If you chose to change the default position from non belief you are making a positive choice and must be able to justify that choice (if only to your self).
I don't understand why the default position has to be neutral or IF it is even possible for no belief to be so neutral and not a positive truth claim in its own right.
Having faith in human wisdom and curiousity exclusive of any other influence is a bit of a positive claim in the progress of humanity, is it not?

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 Message 8 by Larni, posted 05-24-2006 8:52 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 132 of 302 (315766)
05-28-2006 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by mike the wiz
05-28-2006 11:02 AM


Talking Yourself Out of It
Mike, sometimes I think that you are becoming a bit like Robin...who intellectualizes his way OUT of Faith rather than INTO Faith.
Lets leave the Bibles alone for a moment. IF God exists, can we not agree that He desires to reach everyone? Atheists have had no proverbial tap on the shoulder nor any inner unction. Have you?
Or are you still questioning your own Faith?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by mike the wiz, posted 05-28-2006 11:02 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by mike the wiz, posted 05-28-2006 11:38 AM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 134 of 302 (315771)
05-28-2006 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by iano
05-27-2006 9:09 PM


Ianos persistance pays off?
Ian, I must admit that you have shown me two things:
1) You preach to yourself as you preach to us.(And actually are getting better at it.)
2) I would imagine that God (If He exists) does use you at times, but I think that the Devil (If he exists) also uses us Christians as a walking advertisment aginst christianity sometimes.
Lets look at it from the atheists point of view, IF we even can.
Perhaps it would be better if we christians stopped trying to force the freewill hand of the atheists and just allowed our God..and His Spirit...to flow through us by our actions and draw them towards Him by His gentle pull.
Lets get back to the issue of Why Atheism is a belief, however.
Why should we worry about this "great commission" sorta thing? Can't God Himself reach these people IF in fact our belief system is the "best" way?
Perhaps the way atheists see it is live and let live. They probably DO figure out that Christians (many, at least) have this seemingly irrational and zealous desire to correct their belief system.
Perhaps Christians would actually do more good by leaving atheists alone and allowing the Spirit (which we christians "know" to be real) draw the atheists closer to the Truth that we (christians) all believe to be real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by iano, posted 05-27-2006 9:09 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by iano, posted 05-28-2006 1:27 PM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 135 of 302 (315772)
05-28-2006 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by mike the wiz
05-28-2006 11:38 AM


Re: Talking Yourself Out of It
Is it possible for a true (theres that word again) believer to ever become a true atheist?
Or are you caught up in the fact that you have the freedom to disbelieve in God? (Perhaps claiming, internally, that the ball is in Gods court and it is up to God to show you that He exists?)
I suppose that by definition, a true atheist is at peace in their heart that their choice of defining spiritual and metaphysical reality is as honest as it can be.
And if we are honest with ourselves, does anything else really matter?
Disclaimer: As a believer, Im confidant that it will all work out for everyone. Don't go packing your bags for Hell just yet! If we are honest with ourselves as to what we actually believe, all of our doubts and insecurities will be answered. (Don't you all think?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by mike the wiz, posted 05-28-2006 11:38 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by mike the wiz, posted 05-28-2006 12:03 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 139 by iano, posted 05-28-2006 1:34 PM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 138 of 302 (315784)
05-28-2006 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by iano
05-28-2006 1:27 PM


Re: Ianos persistance pays off?
You DO realize, by the way, that you are quite the absolutist in these arguments.
Lemme play the advocate with you. Who are you to tell me how to live?
add by edit:
Iano writes:
Hell-bound -unless-Christ is what folk are here. Don't lose sight of that in your attempt to hold some kind of middle ground.
In a forum, the middle ground leads to more productive conversations. This is a forum and not a church.
Edited by Phat, : add by edit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by iano, posted 05-28-2006 1:27 PM iano has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18353
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 140 of 302 (315787)
05-28-2006 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by iano
05-28-2006 1:34 PM


Re: Talking Yourself Out of It
Thats for you (and more directly, the readers) to figure out.
Sometimes, the best advertisment is in saying nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by iano, posted 05-28-2006 1:34 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by iano, posted 05-28-2006 1:55 PM Phat has not replied

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