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Author | Topic: Islam does not hate christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You say many somebodies is no better than one somebody. Multiple witnesses have historically been counted as evidence by courts, the more the better. Maybe no longer, maybe we've degenerated to the point that such standards are meaningless.
quote: The Bible is a collection of reports of thousands of witnesses to the miracles, the judgments, the character of God. Biblical law also prescribes that two or more witnesses are required to determine the truth about any event. Mohammed had only himself as witness to "Gabriel." Perhaps I wrongly put "witness" in quotes for Mohammed since he was at least one witness, but on the other hand what did he "witness?" He had some kind of experience with an "angel" he called "Gabriel." Well, this "Gabriel" bears no resemblance to the Gabriel of the Bible and teaches things contrary to the Bible so we know this messenger was not from God. So many things besides his being sole witness are in question about Mohammed. But his being the sole witness SHOULD raise doubts in any case. If thousands of witnesses mean nothing to you in comparison to one witness, obviously there's nothing I can say further.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Oh how tiresome. Mohammed didn't even CLAIM to hear from God. He heard from this "angel" called "Gabriel." You will not find a single "Thus saith the LORD" or "The word of the LORD came to me" in ANY other religion. Actually Joseph Smith's utterly unBiblical vision of the two figures he called the Father and the Son may come closest to such a claim. But then he fails on the prophecy of future events account anyway. This message has been edited by Faith, 02-26-2005 22:23 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Well, the Koran is supposed to follow from the Bible and Muslims claim to revere the Bible so judging the Koran by the Bible makes sense to me. ---------*The Bible is the word of God corrupted by man, it's [shouldn't have an apostrophe] depiction of Gabriel is not the same as that in the holy Koran. The Bible teaches things contrary to the holy Koran so we know its [needs an apostrophe] not from God. [Sorry, the apostrophe problem was getting to me]. This message has been edited by Faith, 02-26-2005 22:56 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Well, let's see. "A man" appears in the OT sometimes who is understood to be God HImself or Jesus Christ in a preincarnate appearance, not an angel, and it is He who appears to Daniel in the 10th chapter. I'd have to review Daniel to know for sure if Gabriel might have actually shown Daniel some things that were to come, but I believe he was sent only to explain the visions and prophecies but Daniel got them direct from God. Same in the Book of Revelation, where angels explain visions, but the vision is given by God. HOWEVER, there is no "Thus saith the Lord" and "The word of the Lord came to me" elsewhere. AND, Mohammed got no revelations of anything future. Nor did any other "Prophet" outside the Bible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: But it's not The word of the LORD came to me, and it's not Thus saith the LORD. It's hard to tell how the statement was arrived at.
quote: Well the majority of the Thus saith the Lord prophecies were all in the Old Testament, not the New. And Christianity was not influenced by anything but the Old Testament. Everything in the New Testament follows from the Old.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: OK, foiled by my imperfect knowledge of the Bible. But of course God isn't Ahura Mazda and God isn't Allah and the angels of the Bible are serving the true God but I know I can't prove it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
A symposium on the topic, to get this thread back on topic.
Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So why do you have such a problem with Islam? Page Not Found | Freedom HouseInside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz http://www.faithfreedom.org/Iran/KhomeiniSpeech.htm http://www.thespiritofislam.com/nyattack01.html The Spirit of Islam - Home Prophet of Doom - Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammad's Own Words Daniel Pipes Sucuri WebSite Firewall - Access Denied noniedarwish.com - noniedarwish Resources and Information. http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/ Walid Shoebat - Former Muslim Brotherhood Member Now Peace Activist http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/L/lying.html http://www.faithfreedom.org/testimonials.htm Dhimmitude: The Status of Minorities Under Islamic Rule http://www.dhimmitude.org/d_history_dhimmitude.php http://www.dhimmitude.org/d_history_jihad.php http://www.dhimmi.org/ The Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations Little Green Footballs 403 Forbidden Page not found – secularislam.org Page not found | Free Inquiry http://www.islamreview.com/articles/islamapostasy.shtml http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=3069 DomainHost [Edited for nonnefarious reasons] This message has been edited by Faith, 02-27-2005 02:59 AM This message has been edited by Faith, 02-27-2005 03:00 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Duplicate post. Sorry.
This message has been edited by Faith, 02-27-2005 02:58 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Sure, that's life. People disagree on all kinds of things. Our job is to find the truth in the whole mess, not give up. They could theoretically all be false but they certainly couldn't all be true as they contradict each other. There's the first clue in the puzzle.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: So you agree that prophecy can be transmitted through an intermediary such as an angel? No, not until I've reread the books of Daniel, Revelation and Zechariah to check out whether it was ever the case in the Bible, or until somebody produces a Bible quote clearly showing that an angel did actually give prophecy as well as explain it. (The only intermediary COULD be an angel, but Mohammed's "angel" was no angel of God in any case.)
Are we still together? ?
If so, is the Christian GOD the same person as the Jewish GOD? Yes. But we're off topic. This message has been edited by Faith, 02-27-2005 14:08 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Want to start another thread on this new topic? I don't think it will go very far but it is off-topic and it would be good to keep some of these rabbit trails off this one.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: I have enough on my plate here for the moment, but I'll check there later if I remember or you remind me.
quote: There are two sides on this, and my view is represented by Muslim scholars too. You can't win the dispute by accusing anyone of taking the verses out of context. Historically they have all too frequently been taken at face value, context notwithstanding, and they are preached at face value by the jihadists and this is as legitimate a reading as yours, and far more lethal. Tell me how you are going to persuade your strict fundamentalist Muslim brethren, such as Bin Laden and the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, and the Wahhabis who are defining Islam in 80% of American mosques, that their literal interpretation of the Koran is wrong? This whole discussion is academic at best until you can do that. Persuading me is irrelevant. Tell me how you are going to persuade them. I would prefer that the milder readings were obvious, but they aren't, the violent readings are the straightforward obvious ones and some of the most powerful leaders in Islam have said so.
quote: As I said, prove it to the Wahhabis who are calling the shots for Islam these days.
quote: If you interpret them all into oblivion obviously nobody is going to be able to show you even what is right there in black and white, as I've posted before. [Edit to add: ] And again, it's the fundamentalists who need persuading. All your apologetic does is lull people to the fact that there are plenty of Muslims who DON'T read the Koran with the spin you do, but take it as I've presented it. This message has been edited by Faith, 02-27-2005 14:22 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: But you present all of this as if the Israelis were simply insane destroyers and I don't buy it. We're talking about an area that breeds terrorists whether your family is involved or not and you are giving me NO way to judge this situation. They have REASONS for their actions. There is a Biblical Proverb about how one person's story sounds very reasonable until you hear the other side. Well there is no other side to your stories so there is no basis for judgment.
quote: What am I supposed to do with this statement? You basically accusing my family of supporting terrorism. How can I? I don't know anything about your family. All I'm doing here is saying the mere actions of the Israelis do not prove anything about the rightness or wrongness of their actions given the situation that such actions are their dealing with terrorists in those areas. It appears your family has suffered terribly but their suffering says nothing about why these things are happening. The reasons may not be about your family, but something else having to do with terrorist threats in the area, I don't know, but it is certainly about terrorist threats as that is why Israel does those things. If they're wrong in your family's case you can't prove it by the mere fact of their actions. And I don't know you personally so how can I believe you that your family is not somehow involved in the terrorism? You get all offended that I don't just trust you, but who in their right mind trusts a faceless person on a website? Unfortunately this is how the Palestinian side is often argued -- no facts, but a lot of feelings where there should be evidence.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry, another duplicate.
This message has been edited by Faith, 02-27-2005 14:52 AM
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