The Bible on Sex, Love, and Marriage

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"They" as in ALL of 'em? Please tell me you didn't mean it that way....

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Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear on that. I was being way too general with my wording. Flying Hawk says:

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So it's all about the little thing that hangs betwen your legs??If god appoints man for the role why doesen't she teach them better? Why don't all men just know god things? Are you appointed by god?

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Its not always about that "thing" between the legs, remember the Old Testament times also had Eunuchs.Most people correlate God with "He" also, just FYI. Most men know what is morally right & wrong, but just like the sinful people that we are, we choose not to do the right thing most times. We also have God's Word, the Bible to help direct us in doing what is pleasing to the Lord. Isn't it odd that through out history and all over the world, you will always find humans worshipping something!? Do you suppose God left that in us so that we would seek Him out!?God appoints many people to carry His Will, whether they know it or not. When God punished Israel & Judah, He appointed Babylon and other countries to punish His people. In much the same way we are told in Romans 13 that God has ordained those who break the laws. It gives those doing evil a reason to fear etc.,Did that answer your question?

Only purpose in marrage is to love each other. Remeber about forsaking all others.

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Only purpose in marrage is to love each other. Remeber about forsaking all others.

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Hehe...if it were only that simple! It is very possible to love someone w/all your heart and yet still grow apart from them and miss God's purpose by which we grow together as one. Yes, all other external relationships; Friends, Family, etc., need to become secondary so that they do not interfere with your marriage. How often have you heard of a relative or close friend coming between 2 married people and causing havoc? Happens a lot...
One point to remember though, among Christians...God is the foundation that we build our marriage upon.Is that what you meant?

So, you first said that a woman doesn't have to submit to her husband's will if it "violates her walk with the lord".I then asked who was the spiritual leader of the couple to which you replied:

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The husband of course

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So, if the husband is the one deciding what violates her walk with the lord and what doesn't, doesn't that just mean that he is basically running the show?

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and to remain conflict free they can also seek counsel with a spiritual leader in their church or consult the Pastor. Sounds fair doesn't it!?

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Well, no, that doesn't sound fair if the pastor is as sexist as the husband.Were you aware that a great deal of violence and rape against women within marriages has been sanctioned by pastors of strict fundamentalist churches?The women were told by their pastors and church spiritual leaders that it was their god-appointed "duty" to submit to their husbands, and that they should submit to sex any time he wanted it, and that it was her fault that he hit her.Do you know why this began to change? It wasn't because people within the churches suddenly began to realize how horrible it was, because they didn't care enough or thought they were going against God's will if they attempted to change the status quo.It wasn't because the men in the marriages just stopped wanting to dominate their wives, because no sexist willingly gives up power.It was because the outside culture changed. Violence against women and misogyny was revealed by the bright light of feminism to be rampant and tolerated in strict fundamentalist Christian churches. Marital rape, previously not even recognized as a crime, became illegal. Law enforcement began to take domestic abuse more seriously.Abused women came forward and told their stories instead of hiding in shame, and the shame was rightly foisted back where it belonged; the people and institutions that promote a passive, pliable woman for men to use as they see fit.You have been sold a bill of goods that says "separate but equal, except that the man always gets his way when a couple disagree".Since you are a male, I can see how you would like this arrangement.AbE: Since I have only ever heard, first hand, from the men in these types of marriages, why don't you have your wife sign up and tell us what it's like to submit to you in the marriage? As a woman, I would be very interested to hear her side of things. I have a million questions.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-21-2004 09:21 AM

Asciikerr. Seriously now. I'm not asking for how it started, or who said it should be the case. I'm asking what about men qualifies them for the role. What inherent quality is there in men that is lacking in women that makes us especially qualified for leadership. So why on Earth should any person submit to someone who isn't as smart as they are? And this is good advice how, exactly?I can't conceive of a more piss-poor attitude toward sex. "All those impulses you got going on? They are bad. Wicked. Naughty. Sinful. So stamp them down, quick."

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

Said eunuchs were forbidden to enter the Temple...."unclean" or some such, as I remember it.

Hi PaulK,I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.You wrote: I do not know of any studies that have been done, atleast not by Barna, regarding marriages that are following the biblical plan.We are in need of a survey of people who are following the biblical plan for marriage AND are committed to God in all areas of their lives.I think, by definition, if you are not allowed to divorce except for reasons of marital infidelity or being abandoned by an unbelieving spouse, then the likelihood of divorce will be minimal.Of course, this says nothing of whether a couple will be happy or not.I believe that the teachings of the bible that, when followed, will lead to marital happiness are:

1. Look to God [and his word] daily for guidance, strength, and wisdom.
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2. Follow the principles laid out to husbands and wives in Ephesians 5:22-33 and
   1Corinthians 7:3-5

Hi Dan Carroll,You wrote: The reason society, in general, is so obsessed with sex is because we are not careful what thoughts we allow our minds to entertain.The problem is further exacerbated by the lack of restraint of the media (television, magazines, etc.) and the dress codes of the current culture.

Gee, I figured we were so obsessed with sex was because it's one of the two driving impulses behind life, alongside survival.But hey, let's fix that with nigh-on masochistic levels of repression. Fabulous idea. While we're at it, let's carefully monitor our thoughts to avoid any desire for shelter or food. If you find yourself getting chilly or hungry, just remind yourself that you are a horrible person for thinking these things, and those desires will melt away in no time.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

schrafinator says:

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So, if the husband is the one deciding what violates her walk with the lord and what doesn't, doesn't that just mean that he is basically running the show?

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It wasn't because the men in the marriages just stopped wanting to dominate their wives, because no sexist willingly gives up power.

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Your correct in saying that the men in these marriages were sexist and not willing to give up this power. All too often, men abuse what power they have for their own selfish needs. In many cases these individuals also join churches to abuse what authority they have in order to indulge in their own perversions. So here we're talking about God's blueprint for marriage being abused & defiled by those seeking nothing more than to serve themselves. With any system, if a person is determined to abuse it for his own needs then they likely will. For those who are truly seeking what God intended for marriage, for those that truly love and fear the Lord...it works!Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments." I don't believe these people that use marriage as a tool for their own needs have much love for Jesus, else they would indeed obey what has been set in place.Dan Carroll says:

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What inherent quality is there in men that is lacking in women that makes us especially qualified for leadership.

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So why on Earth should any person submit to someone who isn't as smart as they are?

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God has indeed equipped us to fit our gender roles. Man is specifically suited for the role of leadership, much like he is not well suited for staying home and loving on the kids. Who is more likely to be the protector of the house? Who is better suited to raise the children in a loving and caring environment? Who is more willing to listen to a persons hurt feelings and emotions? I can tell you that my wife works during the day, yet she'd rather be home to raise the children, teaching them to read/write and just loving on them. It would certainly be better than having a daycare worker/relative raising and influencing your children in a way that goes against your wishes. Yes she enjoys her job, she has great co-workers and gets satisfaction for working..but it pales in comparison from the joy one gets from being an active participant in the raising of their children.All through my tour of duty in the military I asked myself, "why do I have to follow the orders of someone that doesn't have a clue?" Imagine a military with no authority, no rank structure, everybody being independant and seeking to rule over others...Chaos would be the end result! In marriage, God is at the top of the Chain of Command, the husband is Commadant, the wife is Sergeant Major and the children are recruits. So when marital roles aren't followed then chaos erupts and problems arise. Sure there are those that abuse this authority, just like they do in the military...I have served with many who abused their rank and yet for all of that, the Military still worked even with those people who abused it.Again, God's blue print for marriage works for those who are honestly seeking the best for their marriage. And yes, much like any system set in place for our benefit, there are those who will seek to abuse it.

There is a big difference between the levels of sexual stimulation in our current society vs. 10, 20, 30+ years ago.I am not advocating the elimination of our sexual desires.The stimulation however, should come from our spouses.

So the only aspect of the Biblical plan that helps makes a "successful" marriage is forbidding divorce ? And that only because it reduces divorce rates ? (And yes that DOES cause couples who really should get a divorce to stay married, in name at least).But the figures still show no evidence that following your "Biblical principles" will lead to a happy marriage.

1) What are you basing this on? Have you seen footage of Woodstock?2) So? People are less repressed. Good for them. No, you're advocating the elimination of all but one of our sexual desires. Why's that? Even if we assume that you should only have sex with your spouse, (which I think is crap) why shouldn't you want to have sex with someone else?Moreover, how exactly is someone supposed to prevent themselves from wanting something without resorting to the previously mentioned masochistic repression?

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

Dpardo says:

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"I agree with what you said but you misquoted me here"

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Ascii*Kerr says: Oops, my bad... Forgive me.. Dan Carroll says:

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I can't conceive of a more piss-poor attitude toward sex. "All those impulses you got going on? They are bad. Wicked. Naughty. Sinful. So stamp them down, quick."

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Hehe, okay I could have been a bit more specific in this. These "wicked sexual desires" involve; animals, same sex, prostitution, adultery, etc., Do you see any benefit in these lusts?

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But hey, let's fix that with nigh-on masochistic levels of repression.

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Nobody is saying you should repress these, only that outside of marriage, they are not according to God's Will. You can indulge in fantasies if:
A.) It is consensual with your spouse.
B.) Does not violate the sanctity of marriage (adultery, same sex etc.,)All your doing is trying to find fault with something that was put in place to benefit us. If that is the case you can find fault in anything, because nobody is perfect. But rather focusing on everything else, you focus on God's plan...It works for those that Love & follow God's commandments. I think that part is crystal...

And you are basing this statement on...?Seriously, guy. What, specifically, about each gender equips them for these roles? Well that would certainly vary from person to person, wouldn't it? I have no reason to doubt that she would. And your wife's desires are representative of the three billion-odd women on the planet because...? And now imagine a military that followed an utterly inept bumbler of a commander-in-chief. Oh wait, you don't have to... just check out the paper. I believe the words "catastrophic" and "quagmire" are being thrown around a lot.It's good to see that you consider marriage akin to a military dynamic, though. Personally, I have no desire to make women drop and gimme thirty.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer