The Bible on Sex, Love, and Marriage

I'm aware. I think there are some neat tidbits in the Bible. I just don't think that the whole book is good to follow to the exact letter. Crash covered this, and you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Makes sense, seeing as how I want to legalize marijuana and other drugs. What part of "not bringing harm to another person" didn't you get? Excuse me, but that's not even close to what I said. I made very clear that a married person would need their spouse's permission/approval.

Simple - honesty and communication.If spouses approve of their partners having sex with someone else, and are fully aware of it, it is not a problem for that couple.Some couples choose to be completely open, others may regard potential outside sexual partners on a case-by-case / situation-by-situation basis.But the honesty and communication point is extremely important - if one partner lies about feelings for someone else, or being okay with their partner being with someone else - then problems can arise.Keep in mind though, that in many open relationships, the spouse is in the same room when their partner is with someone else, or the couple may be having sex with someone else at the same time.

What if your spouse doesn't want you doing these things that bring you happiness? Do you stop doing these things to appease her?What if your spouse's form of happiness doesn't jive with what you want, and she really doesn't care what you say, what then? Yes, spouse that wants her own way...it does happen.

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God has indeed equipped us to fit our gender roles. Man is specifically suited for the role of leadership,

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...and this is evidenced in what way?What qualities do men have that women don't that make every single one of them better suited to lead in every single area of a couple's life?

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much like he is not well suited for staying home and loving on the kids.

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Men are emotionally repressed because they are taught to be from the time they are infants.You are completely ignoring the role of societal and cultural indoctrination on the behaviors of the genders.IOW, there is a lot more nurture than nature WRT gender.

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Who is more likely to be the protector of the house?

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In my family, it's me.My husband HATES confrontation but I have less problem with it.

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Who is better suited to raise the children in a loving and caring environment?

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Both parents are needed to provide a loving and caring environment.

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Who is more willing to listen to a persons hurt feelings and emotions?

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All of my best friends have always, for my entire life, been men. Men are often very good at listening and comforting.Goodness, you have quite a limited view of what men can do, don't you?

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I can tell you that my wife works during the day, yet she'd rather be home to raise the children, teaching them to read/write and just loving on them. It would certainly be better than having a daycare worker/relative raising and influencing your children in a way that goes against your wishes.

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Studies generally show that children in high quality daycare tend to be better able to adjust to new situations and are more outgoing that children raised at home, but that is the only difference.

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Yes she enjoys her job, she has great co-workers and gets satisfaction for working..but it pales in comparison from the joy one gets from being an active participant in the raising of their children.

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That may very well be for your wife, but it is not at all the case for ALL women, everywhere.Gender roles are societally-taught, not "natural".

Somebody mentioned in this thread that almost 75% of Americans considered themselves Christian.Well, have you looked at the size of the porn industry? It's huge.A lot of porn watchers consider themselves Christian, it seems.

Then you don't enter into that kind of marriage with that person.What's so difficult to understand about this? Then perhaps they shouldn't be your spouse. Marriage serves no purpose if the people involved would be happier apart than they would together.

Physical abuse would be unacceptable in a biblical marriage just as in an unbiblical one.The safety of a spouse in that kind of situation is the priority.As far as the Bible is concerned, I don't think this situation is specifically addressed. The marriage would require intervention on behalf of the church [of the couple] to resolve. The resolution of such a problem would depend, of course, on all of the particular circumstances involved.Obviously, it is not a correct thing for a Godly man to beat his wife and there are some serious issues that need to be dealt with.As far as biblical grounds for divorce, I think it would be fair to say that the wife-beater does not have even a basic grasp of biblical marriage and may not even be a "believer". If the church, (assuming, of course, that the abusing spouse is not in prison for assault and battery) is able to instruct and correct the abusing spouse, then reconciliation and forgiveness should be sought. If the abusing spouse is beyond instruction and correction then, "yes", the spouse should be allowed to divorce.This brings up a topic for another thread:Do men become wife-beaters after they're married or are they already predisposed to that kind of behavior from their upbringing?

schrafinator says:

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You are completely ignoring the role of societal and cultural indoctrination on the behaviors of the genders.

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Do you suppose its odd that these same gender roles are global? I mean, if you visit the far ends of the earth where the people aren't influenced by MTV or even our society, do you suppose they too will be following these "gender" roles? Of course, then you can call it cultural, but really..are there any cultures that don't follow this? Any Societies that don't follow this? I agree that both are needed, but my question was "who is better suited?" The man or woman? Its a polarized question..

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Studies generally show that children in high quality daycare tend to be better able to adjust to new situations and are more outgoing that children raised at home, but that is the only difference.

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I also value a good education and my children are in the Head-Start program, but when it comes down to who's caring for your children and teaching them morals and values...then their adjustment has really lost their value. Our society has also been adjusting and becoming more tolerant on homosexuality, adultery and people seeking to look after number 1.

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That may very well be for your wife, but it is not at all the case for ALL women, everywhere.

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I can't speak for the women who don't find joy in spending time and being involved in their childrens upbringing. I pray and hope they find the best of childcare! Its no wonder Childcare doesn't work in the Far East. They are more careful about who raises their children too.

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Gender roles are societally-taught, not "natural".

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These roles seem very natural all around the world. Aside from some animal species and England, I don't see women in the role of leadership or authority much. Society taught huh? Where did they learn their teachings? Seems pretty natural...

I'm not suggesting that a wife-beater is behaving Biblically (although it would not surprise me if there was some justification to be found).The question is what does the Bible say that the wife should do ? It it is simply to submit to her husband and if beatings - no matter how severe - are not Biblically valid grounds for divorce then it seems that the Bible says that the wife should accept the situation, no matter how bad.But I am glad that you agree that there are cases other than adultery where divorce is no sin - even though you criticised people for saying otherwise earlier in the thread.

Haven't you heard of Indira Ghandhi or Golda Meir ?MANAS | UCLA Social Sciences ComputingGolda Meir

Dan Carroll,I don't know if a study has been done to gauge the success of that type of open-marriage.Does this sound like a good environment in which to raise children?Do you have any support that these marriages last?

I don't know of any studies either. The best I can offer you is anecdotal evidence of couples I've known who've thrived within that dynamic. Why would the children have anything to do with their parents' sex life? I don't know about you, but I never sat down and listened to my Dad describe how he gave it to my Mom good last night.Now... you've asked me a number of questions on this arrangement, without answering my initial question that kicked them all off... why shouldn't someone want to have sex with someone other than their spouse?This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 10-21-2004 04:39 PM

Hi Schrafinator,You wrote: I agree.

Have you actually been reading the posts from Dan and I? The one you replied to included my statement, "If spouses approve of their partners having sex with someone else, and are fully aware of it, it is not a problem for that couple."The counter to that, is that if the approval and openness is not there, it is a problem - I thought that should be obvious.My wife and I discuss having sex with other people, sometimes having sex together with the person, sometimes as individuals - we also have our own set of rules about what sex acts we will engage in with other people. Depending on the people and situation we approve or disprove, and act accordingly. What is so hard to understand? You also seem to have a silly notion that any instances of open relationships are strictly for the man's sake. As my wife would surely tell you, that is quite a misconception - since she also benefits from the joys of group sex and outside partners.If either my wife or I elected to have sex in a situation that the other disproved of, yes, that would be a serious problem for a relationship.But this wouldn't be caused by the sex itself, but rather by the betrayal.I would feel equally betrayed if my wife went skydiving, since that is one of the few things I have asked her not to do, and after understanding my concerns and point of view, she agreed.Similarly, she has asked me never to participate in a demolition derby, and I've agreed.Good relationships are first seeded with honesty and openness - compromise necessarily follows. I wouldn't (and haven't) married someone who "really doesn't care what I say", and suggest you don't, either.From your statements, you seem to have a very immature view of relationships...

dpardo,Though interesting, maybe not thread-worthy as stated, since there are a heck of a lot of guys and gals beating up their girlfriends and boyfriends.