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EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ Biological Evolution ⇒

Evolution for Dummies and Christians

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Author Topic:   Evolution for Dummies and Christians
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
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Message 195 of 299 (266426)
12-07-2005 1:55 PM 		Reply to: Message 186 by Carico
12-07-2005 12:22 PM

Typical yes/no black/white fundementalist-creationist reasoning
How is it a great thing about science that they prove themselves wrong in every generation?
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It is not that scientific theories are discarded wholesale. They are modified to be improved versions. Much/most of the previous content remains being considered valid.
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It is not that scientists show ("prove") themselves to be completely wrong. It's that scientists show themselves to be less than completely right. There is alway room for improvement in a theory.
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Many mainstream Christians also have found that there is room for improvement in their theology. It is the fundementialists that are stuck in the "it's all right or it's all wrong" line of reasoning.
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Moose
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This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 12-07-2005 01:57 PM
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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0

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Message 209 of 299 (266519)
12-07-2005 5:23 PM 		Reply to: Message 206 by Yaro
12-07-2005 3:21 PM

Re: Dogs, dogs, and more dogs
You obviously don't understand the point. Chihuahuas and Great Danes can't interbreed and we KNOW they are related.
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The fuzzyness of the definition of "species" has been discussed in various topic, maybe even up-thread in this one.
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I believe that Chihuahaus and Great Danes are reproductively isolated because of physical size differences and not by genetics. Perhaps a male Chihuahua could execute the sexual act with a female Great Dane. I suspect artificial insemination could be used to breed a Chihuahau/Great Dane cross breed, althought I strongly suspect there still may be physical problems, especially if the Great Dane wasn't the (dare I say) bitch in the equation.
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By some perspectives, the Chihuahau and Great Dane are different species.
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Indeed, by some perspectives, the dog and the wolf are different species, or at the minimum the dog is a subspecies (breed?) of wolf. The wolf is designated Canus lupus. The dog sometimes designated Canus lupus, sometimes disignated Canus lupus familiaris, or sometimes designated Canus familiaris.
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Not at all a biologist,
Moose
This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0

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Message 282 of 299 (266893)
12-08-2005 3:44 PM 		Reply to: Message 276 by Modulous
12-08-2005 3:25 PM

Evolution - Fact and Theory
And yet they call evolution a fact that they teach our children in the classrooms.
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Who calls evolution a fact? It is almost certain that life has changed over time, and the theory that explains this is well supported.
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My bolds.
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By any rational observation, it is extremely certain that life has changed over time. This makes (biological) evolution to be a fact.
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Gould's famous statement (from Evolution is a Fact and a Theory):
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Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.
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That (biological) evolution happened is a fact. The theory of (biological) evolution is the collected data of and about how it happened.
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Moose
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Added by edit - Other forum topics:
Evolution as Fact and Theory
The Fact of the Evolution (change) of Life on Earth
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This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 12-08-2005 04:00 PM
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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Modulous, posted 12-08-2005 3:25 PM Modulous has not replied
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