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Author | Topic: Evolution for Dummies and Christians | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RoyLennigan Inactive Member |
quote: 'animal' is just a word. humans are always trying to put order to the universe and give everything a name. fact is, we are carbon-based life forms just like every other living thing on this planet. though i agree with the statements towards the end of this paragraph, most of it is just opinion. All human actions are swayed by instinct.
quote:the only way we are seperated from other animals is that we have greater brain power. That and our hands are our only assets in this world. we have seperated from other animals, just like they seperated from their anscestors and so on to the dawn of life. But we are still very much animals, driven by instinctual desires, though culture has caused us to hide these desires. quote:dogs, cats, dolphins, really anything if you ask such an open ended question. There is no right or wrong. But there is morality in a certain population or society. Do you have a pet dog? Haven't you taught it not to defecate on the floor? And it learned that pooping on the floor was wrong, didn't it? Without morality, there would be no social animals such as ourselves. Dolphins group together and they have their own morality. So do whales. Any animal that nurtures its young has morality. And apes are the closest to us, socially and in many other ways (they are our ancestors). quote:there is a distinction between every animal. to say that a great difference between us and other animals prooves we are not animals is just ignorant. first, you are arguing about a name. its like saying that george patton is not a patton because he doesn't have the same nose pattons normally have. but the fact is, patton is a name, and patton is really a human. 'animal' describes certain similarities that a group of organisms have. also, there is no limit to how far an animal's 'skills' as you put it, can evolve. if there were i doubt humans would have come to be. perhaps in another million years or more dogs will start building cities and wrting books. but by then they wont be called dogs anymore, they'll be mogs. who really knows? yes humans have an overwhelming capability to analyze and rationalize and communicate these things. That is why we are humans and not apes. humans will have to evolve a lot more before we are considered a different type of organism other that animal. if we survive that long.
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RoyLennigan Inactive Member |
quote:don't be naive. evolution and creationism are merely concepts attempting to explain the world around us. instinct is just basic thought that causes us to do what we do. more complex actions that arise from more complex situations require more complex thinking, therefore throwing the conscious thought into the mix. But there will always be basic instincts 'persuading' judgement and action. Freud explains the human mind as having three layers, the Id, the Ego and the Superego. Here is an excerpt from wikipedia:"The Id... represented primary process thinking ” our most primitive need gratification type thoughts. The Superego... represented our conscience and counteracted the Id with moral and ethical thoughts. Freud based the term Id on the work of Georg Groddeck. The Ego stands in between both to balance our primitive needs and our moral/ethical beliefs. A healthy ego provides the ability to adapt to reality and interact with the outside world in a way that accommodates both Id and Superego." Sigmund Freud - Wikipedia quote:Instinctual desires. like the desire to eat, to sleep, to have sex, to learn from those older than you, to live with other people, anything people have been doing without language or civilization. morality is a common, extremely emotionally tied instinct that arises from the need for humans (and many other animals) to live together in a group. over time, emotions have developed because they cause us to act a certain way. morality is a dominant human characteristic because humans had to band together to survive. It is therefore obvious that because they survived, morality is an extremely dominant instinct. everyone has morals, to an extent. the reason everyone has different ideals about morals is because we're all genetically different. instincts do have good and bad consequences. rape is a big consequence of instinct. it is instinctual to have sex and that instinct is very overpowering for the less educated. a moth flying towards a flame isn't a good example to explain your position. humans are much more complex and are able to rationalize that fire is harmful. if we did not know what fire was, many people would touch it or jump right in, but would quickly find out (instinctually) that it is harmful and then never do it again. the ability to discern between a flower and fire has nothing to do with instinct. what if i am wrong about these instincual desires? what if you're wrong about a devine creator? i may well be wrong, but i'd be wrong along with millions of the smartest minds on the planet. i see no reason why instincts would be evidence of a devine creator.
quote:no, no, you're not getting the point. right and wrong are just aspects of morality. morality is just an instinct that acts on experience in a society. you are born with simple concepts of morality which are imprinted by the society you live in. the concepts of right and wrong hold no value outside of the human mind (or similar mind). a hurricane kills thousands of people but you don't call it evil and vow revenge. it is a force of nature. what hitler did is wrong in the sense that the majority of the human population is against it, yet all those germans in the nazi army gladly went off to war for the promise of the 3rd reich. do you believe that the nazi soliers were evil? do you think hitler was a servant of satan? no. the soldiers were ignorant of the truth of the matter, and just wanted to be a part of something important. many american kids would have done just the same in a similar position. hitler was just a social genius with a psychological problem. abortion is another matter completely but i'm not gonna bring it up in this thread.
quote:a baby knows nothing when it is born, besides instinct. it will piss and crap wherever it pleases. it will communicate in simple tones. don't you ever remember being punished as a kid? it acts the same way as when you punish a puppy. you're right, its not instinct, its learning. its memory. babies know they must eat (or drink). they know pain, they know loneliness. they laugh, they cry (a lot). all these things they know how to do without learning a thing. i am certainly not implying that training is instint at all. after time, though the animals born with certain instincts that make them survive better will become more dominant and spread more of their characteristics than any other of its kind. this is how instinct evolves. say we killed all the dogs that didn't quickly learn not to pee on the carpet. if we did this for a million years (or maybe less), we would most likely have a race of dogs that don't pee on carpet.
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RoyLennigan Inactive Member |
This is heading off topic (or has been for awhile) -- please do not respond here quote:i doubt you were the creator of life, what gives you any more credibility? god has no proven connection to us, so how can you believe "what he says"? If i am wrong and i die, i go to purgatory, in your beliefs. if you are wrong and you die, you have been a detriment to the evolution of man, especially if you have passed your genes and parenting on to the next generation. This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 09-26-2005 02:27 AM
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