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Author Topic:   If the Bible is metaphorical then perhaps so is the God of the Bible
CarlinKnew
Junior Member (Idle past 5451 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 05-21-2009


Message 31 of 243 (509775)
05-24-2009 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by John 10:10
05-24-2009 9:35 PM


Re: Wrong question!
Are there similar metaphorical indicators in the creation story of Genesis?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by John 10:10, posted 05-24-2009 9:35 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by John 10:10, posted 05-24-2009 11:38 PM CarlinKnew has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 32 of 243 (509777)
05-24-2009 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by kbertsche
05-24-2009 9:47 PM


Absolutely not. My explanation that "proper interpretation requires historical, grammatical, and cultural study of the passage in question" implies the opposite. Hermeneutics has a scholarly, objective basis.
Please show how an interpretation is objective. It is based upon an interpretation so by virtue of that it is subjective. You will never know what the original intent was and you can not say that any of it is based upon a real historical incident, therefore it is subjective.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3026 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 33 of 243 (509780)
05-24-2009 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by CarlinKnew
05-24-2009 10:02 PM


Re: Wrong question!
Are there similar metaphorical indicators in the creation story of Genesis?
Since you have moved from the clear "sheep" metaphor Jesus used in John 10:27, you tell me what you think may be a metaphor in the Genesis creation account, and I'll do my best to tell you whether or not I believe it's a metaphor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-24-2009 10:02 PM CarlinKnew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-25-2009 10:55 AM John 10:10 has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 34 of 243 (509802)
05-25-2009 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by CarlinKnew
05-22-2009 10:12 AM


Carlinknew writes:
I'll rephrase then: how do Christians decide which parts of the Bible are true?
what do you mean by 'which parts of the bible are true'?
i still dont get where you are coming from or what you are trying to understand??
all of the bible is true. The writings have different authors and purposes. there are historical writings and prophetic writings, there are laws and there is poetry/songs which tell stories.
All the writings are true in that they have been written to instruct or teach or relay information...the way that information is relayed is not always to be taken literally though. Often metaphores are used as a teaching aid, but that doesnt make the writing 'untrue'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-22-2009 10:12 AM CarlinKnew has replied

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Peg
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 35 of 243 (509803)
05-25-2009 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by CarlinKnew
05-24-2009 12:43 PM


Carlinknew writes:
Yes, I'm interested in authorial intent. How do Christians determine that the authors intended the Genesis creation account to be metaphorical, but the story of the resurrection was intended to be literal?
Not all christians view the creation account to be a metaphore.
The account does not present as such. It is a brief account of creation and of Mankinds fall from perfection. I, and many others, view it as a literal account.
the same goes for the flood account. Noah is listed in Jesus genealogy presented by Mathew and Luke, as is Adam... so if they were metaphorical people, do you think they would be listed in a real persons genealogy? This shows the two accounts are to be taken literally.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-24-2009 12:43 PM CarlinKnew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Huntard, posted 05-25-2009 9:56 AM Peg has replied
 Message 39 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-25-2009 11:00 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 48 by purpledawn, posted 05-25-2009 9:15 PM Peg has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 36 of 243 (509818)
05-25-2009 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Peg
05-25-2009 7:21 AM


Peg writes:
Noah is listed in Jesus genealogy presented by Mathew and Luke, as is Adam... so if they were metaphorical people, do you think they would be listed in a real persons genealogy?
Aside from the fact that it is far from clear that Jesus was a real person, of course this happened. People did this all the time. Alexander the great was said to be descended from Zeus, does this make Zeus real? Pharaohs in egypt were said to be descended from Osiris. Does this make Osiris real? The list goes on and on.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Peg, posted 05-25-2009 7:21 AM Peg has replied

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CarlinKnew
Junior Member (Idle past 5451 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 05-21-2009


Message 37 of 243 (509824)
05-25-2009 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Peg
05-25-2009 7:10 AM


Is it really so unclear what I'm asking? How do Christians determine which stories of the Bible are intended to be metaphorical and which parts are to be taken literally?

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 Message 34 by Peg, posted 05-25-2009 7:10 AM Peg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 05-25-2009 11:01 AM CarlinKnew has not replied

  
CarlinKnew
Junior Member (Idle past 5451 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 05-21-2009


Message 38 of 243 (509825)
05-25-2009 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by John 10:10
05-24-2009 11:38 PM


Re: Wrong question!
Well is the creation story to be taken literally?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by John 10:10, posted 05-24-2009 11:38 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by John 10:10, posted 05-25-2009 12:01 PM CarlinKnew has replied

  
CarlinKnew
Junior Member (Idle past 5451 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 05-21-2009


Message 39 of 243 (509828)
05-25-2009 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Peg
05-25-2009 7:21 AM


Not all, but the majority. I'm interested in how they came to that conclusion.

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 Message 35 by Peg, posted 05-25-2009 7:21 AM Peg has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3322 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 40 of 243 (509829)
05-25-2009 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by CarlinKnew
05-25-2009 10:54 AM


CarlinKnew writes:
Is it really so unclear what I'm asking?
Take it from a guy who have been talking to creationists for years. The tactic they use in this case to answer your question is playing dumb. If someone asks you a question you know you're damned if you answer honestly, the best way to avoid it is pretend like you don't understand the question and hope the person would forget. Creationists are notorious at playing dumb.

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 Message 37 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-25-2009 10:54 AM CarlinKnew has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by NosyNed, posted 05-25-2009 11:16 AM Taz has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 41 of 243 (509831)
05-25-2009 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taz
05-25-2009 11:01 AM


Playing?
As Carl Vintnor said when he was accused of "playing God":
"We are not playing."

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 Message 40 by Taz, posted 05-25-2009 11:01 AM Taz has replied

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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3026 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 42 of 243 (509835)
05-25-2009 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by CarlinKnew
05-25-2009 10:55 AM


Re: Wrong question!
Well is the creation story to be taken literally?
Yes! That's why it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then it goes on to reveal how God created every creature after their own kind, and finally God created man in the image of God. If you think some parts are metaphorical, point them out from your viewpoint, and we who know our Creator will respond.
Edited by John 10:10, : added comments

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-25-2009 10:55 AM CarlinKnew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-25-2009 12:36 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 45 by bluescat48, posted 05-25-2009 12:44 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
CarlinKnew
Junior Member (Idle past 5451 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 05-21-2009


Message 43 of 243 (509842)
05-25-2009 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by John 10:10
05-25-2009 12:01 PM


Re: Wrong question!
Are the days of creation literally 24 hour periods?
Was the first man literally created from dust?
Was the first woman literally created from a man's rib?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by John 10:10, posted 05-25-2009 12:01 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by kbertsche, posted 05-25-2009 3:14 PM CarlinKnew has not replied
 Message 50 by Peg, posted 05-26-2009 12:39 AM CarlinKnew has not replied
 Message 66 by John 10:10, posted 05-26-2009 12:15 PM CarlinKnew has replied

  
CarlinKnew
Junior Member (Idle past 5451 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 05-21-2009


Message 44 of 243 (509846)
05-25-2009 12:41 PM


Are there any Christians on this site who aren't Bible Literalists who can respond to the OP?

Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4220 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 45 of 243 (509847)
05-25-2009 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by John 10:10
05-25-2009 12:01 PM


Re: Wrong question!
Yes! That's why it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then it goes on to reveal how God created every creature after their own kind, and finally God created man in the image of God. If you think some parts are metaphorical, point them out from your viewpoint, and we who know our Creator will respond.
I will say the entire book of Genesis is metaphorical, mythological and/or alleghorical. It is stories told by bronze aged men about what they observed with the use of human imagination to "connect the dots."
If one looks at these stories though the eyes of those who told these stories instead of through 21st century eyes, one can easily see that the Genesis stories are no more real than Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Mayan, Hindi, Muslem and Chinese mythology.
Edited by bluescat48, : sp

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

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 Message 42 by John 10:10, posted 05-25-2009 12:01 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
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