The Prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel

Where does Daniel mention Jesus?

I didn't ask this question.I asked, where does the author of Daniel mention Jesus?There was no Messiah at the time you are talking about.

How embarrassing is it when one moron gives another moron support over something that is clearly an utter mess?No wonder something as stupid as Christianity has survived so long when it is only mindless, moronic robots that can believe in it.Time after time, at this site and others, as well as real time, we encounter adults who have the reasoning skills of a five year old.Why don't these people ever study the Bible in a serious academic context?Does anyone else get so bored with refuting these ludicrous 'prophecies' that they cannot be arsed anymore but feel you have to refute it because these retards will think it is a genuine prophecy?What is wrong with an adult who can accept garbage like this without any critical analysis at all?Edited by Brian, : spelling

What is the earliest extant text of 'Daniel'?

I'll try again.What is the oldest extant text of Daniel?

Could you name a couple of these? Or the OT for that matter.Plus, Jesus did not fulfil a single messianic prophecy, strange how Christians ignore that.

Hi Starman,You may have missed my earlier post, but could you tell me what is the date of the oldest existing text of Daniel?Cheers.

The fourth Kingdom is clearly Greek.However, once it became apparent that the author(s) of Daniel (who is a fictional character)was wrong about the coming of god's kingdom the only way to address this was to reintepret the fourth kingdom as the Romans.The thing about the Book of Daniel is that the alleged history in it is a terrible mess, Darius the Mede for example never existed, and there was no Median empire when the Book of Daniel claims there was.Throw in the internal discrepencies and the book is barely worth anything hisotrically.The common accepted date for composition is around 165 BCE, which makes the prophecies redundant.

Well, strictly speaking a prophecy doesn't need to be a prediction, it is simply passing on what God has told you to say. But sometimes a prophecy contains a prediction, usually a warning of what will happen if you do or don't do a particular thing.

Are the fundies now trying to erase 140 years of The Macedonian Empire?

Hi Starman,Can you tell me the earliest extant Book of Daniel?I've asked 3 or 4 times now, if you don't know could you say so as it saves me asking again?Cheers.

A self-verifying document is bad scholarship. For example, if a 14th century writer pens a document about a king that lived in the 12th century then that doesn’t mean that the document should be dated to the 12th century. Thus, other internal and external evidence is required.Internal evidence can be words or phrases that were particular to a specific time frame. A good example of this is in the Book of Exodus 1:11 where the reference to the city of Rameses is a second millennium term, whilst the reference to Pithom has to be after the 7th century BCE, thus this particular text can be no earlier that the 7th century BCE. I’m not being difficult, but the article doesn’t mention the dating for the Book of Daniel, it only suggests that the find may cast some light on the possible date. Among some other fragments from, the cave, which were acquired by the Syrian Convent early this year, are three portions of the Book of Daniel from two separate scrolls. In view of current opinions about the date of this book, it will be interesting to know what the experts think about the date of these fragments. Every single scholar who has examined the Book of Daniel has doubts about some parts of it, your example of Darius the Mede is just one.There isn’t a single scholar in the world that believes this is a reference to a real person, and indeed your example we see someone suggesting that the author(s) of Daniel were referring to someone who wasn’t even called Darius!Anyway, so we can move on, are we in agreement that the earliest existing texts of Daniel, and the variants of it, are the ones from Qumran dated to the second century BCE?Brian.

It isn't my standard mate, it is the way that historical research is carried out.I gave you a very basic example of one reason why a document cannot be used to date itself, if you cannot understand that then there's no hope for you.The information in ancient texts, if claiming an historical event, need to be verified from external sources, this is the way that historical research is done. I haven't presented anything to challenge the content yet, I have been trying to get you to answer a question about 6 times now and you still keep avoiding it, once you have answered that question then I will move on.So, once again, what is the date of the earliest existing texts of the book of Daniel? If you don't know then just say so, there's nothing bad about not knowing something. What incredulity?I haven't posted anything of any substance on this thread.Can you answer the question instead of dancing about all over the place?

Apparently there is since you have been going on about it on this thread.I am replying to a link you posted, a link that you provided to answer my question about the earliest extant Daniel text!Did you post this link to provide a date for the earliest text before you read it since it doesn't give a date?Will I take it that you do not know the date of the earliest extant text? That's what I'm asking you mate. But, I am asking the date of the earliest extant Daniel text, NOT the era that the contents are said to represent. I have no problem with the Bible authors making mistakes, the Bible is rife with errors, but that wasn't my point.You asked if I had some reason to doubt the sacred texts, and I gave you ONE reason why there's not a single solitary scholar that doesn't doubt some parts of the Book of Daniel. I am glad you agree with me on this at least. So can I, but probably for different reasons.But the point that you agree that the Bible contains errors is well noted.

Of course it does. What are you on about? I haven’t said any writings were a hoax, all I have asked you is the date of the oldest extant text of Daniel! A question you have dodged how many times now, 6 or 7? So what are the earliest extant records?Since you deal in evidence, what is the date of the earliest extant evidence? How can I have anything when you haven’t answered the question yet? You know why, you even posted a link and admitted that the author messed up with the name Darius the Mede! In the example in question, it is the amount of evidence that shows there was no such person as Daniel’s Darius. I haven’t posted anything yet mate, I’m still trying to get you to answer the simple question that I keep asking you, and you get all defensive.Once you answer this question we can move on to my next question which will start to build a background and an understanding of the issues surrounding of the Book of Daniel.Then, perhaps, we can discuss these issues rationally.But I find with some my students that they learn much better with a step by step approach, instead of trying to tackle too many issues at the same time.So, chill out, focus on my question, and if you do not have an answer then just say so, this isn’t a problem.One more time:What is the date of the oldest existing text of the Book of Daniel?