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Author Topic:   In His own image .....
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4580 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 65 of 98 (42595)
06-11-2003 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by stevo3890
06-11-2003 3:12 PM


Re: in his own image
quote:
In order to have true free will, like we do, and what i think God gave us, our decisions, turning into action if you will, should not be dependent upon God. otherwise we are nothing more than God's puppets.
There's a clearly stated doctrine of predestination in the Bible that seems to say that such is exactly the case. There are many cases where God says he will alter people's perception and motivation, for example, and in the New Testament it's explicitly said that God chooses who will believe.
The contradiction (and it is a contradiction) between predestination and free will can only be accepted by someone who has predetermined to believe in both, since the Bible says they are true. Even when I was a Christian I found it hard to swallow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 3:12 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 3:41 PM zephyr has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4580 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 67 of 98 (42601)
06-11-2003 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by stevo3890
06-11-2003 3:41 PM


Re: in his own image
quote:
I thought it was who would be saved, not believe. if i am wrong I would like to be corrected. As for God picking who will be saved, I think that only God could do this and he does this in accordance of our actions.
Tell me if I'm improperly equating the two, but I always heard "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."
Predestination implies that he makes the decision before we act.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 3:41 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 3:58 PM zephyr has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4580 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 69 of 98 (42606)
06-11-2003 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by stevo3890
06-11-2003 3:58 PM


Re: in his own image
So much for free will. So much for being made in His image, except as little mirrors with no responsibility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 3:58 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
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zephyr
Member (Idle past 4580 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 75 of 98 (42731)
06-12-2003 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 4:20 PM


Re: in his own image
If we are capable of making the clouds and controlling all the factors that affect them, and if we possess the ability to do such a simulation, then we are indeed responsible for everything they do. The very idea of runnning a simulation, too, implies that the model is mechanistic and in the case of human beings would imply no free will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:20 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:49 PM zephyr has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4580 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 78 of 98 (42750)
06-12-2003 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 4:49 PM


Re: in his own image
Neither of your examples are really analogous to an omnipotent, omniscient god. Both imply the observer and the observed are peers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:49 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:58 PM zephyr has not replied

  
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