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Topic: In His own image .....

compmage

Member (Idle past 5183 days)

Posts: 601

From: South Africa

Joined: 08-04-2005

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Message 50 of 98 (42535)
06-11-2003 3:17 AM

Reply to: Message 49 by stevo3890
06-10-2003 11:55 PM

Re: in his own image

stevo3890 writes:

Hi, God's own image is Free will. we are free to do what ever we want and because of this we are in "his image".

So why can't I exercise this free will and by just snapping my fingers have every rapist, murderer and child molestor die right where they stand?

Because that goes against their free will? Well the actions that made them rapists, murderers and child molestors also violated someones free will.

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He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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	Message 49 by stevo3890, posted 06-10-2003 11:55 PM		stevo3890 has replied

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	Message 51 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 1:03 PM		compmage has not replied

compmage

Member (Idle past 5183 days)

Posts: 601

From: South Africa

Joined: 08-04-2005

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Message 73 of 98 (42655)
06-12-2003 3:25 AM

Reply to: Message 72 by stevo3890
06-11-2003 9:04 PM

Re: in his own image

stevo3890 writes:

my thought is this, God is not ordaining what is happening he just knows what WE will ordain.

If God knows what we will do before we do it and if he can't be wrong then we can't do anything else. Ergo no free will.

As to my earlier argument. My point was that God (if he exists) has already restricked my free will in that I can't decide to snap my fingers and that action itself kills people. Assuming he created the universe he has made sure that this is physically impossible. Most people think that this is not actually a violation of our free will. Why didn't he just make sure that killing or raping someone is physically impossible? Since obviously things that we can't do because they are physically impossible are not violations of our free will, or do you think they are?

Does this make sense?

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	Message 72 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 9:04 PM		stevo3890 has replied

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	Message 74 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:20 PM		compmage has replied

compmage

Member (Idle past 5183 days)

Posts: 601

From: South Africa

Joined: 08-04-2005

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Message 76 of 98 (42746)
06-12-2003 4:42 PM

Reply to: Message 74 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 4:20 PM

Re: in his own image

stevo3890 writes:

Does a simulation of clouds ordain where the clouds will be? Or let's say we have perfected our means of perdicting the weather so we are never wrong. Does our perfect prediction of weather, tell the weather what it will do? No the weather happens of it's own accord we just know what it would do that is what i was getting at.

Are you saying that clouds have free will? That they can 'decide' to drift against the flow of air?

stevo3890 writes:

As to making things impossible well, if killing were impossible than we would not be able to have a hamburger or really any food.

I spoke of killing someone, implying, I thought, human beings. I am sorry if that was not clear.

stevo3890 writes:

As to rape that uses the same system as reperduction, so to make rape impossible would also make repurduction impossible.

I would hope that you don't have so little imagination. Why not have reproductive organs that don't function without the person being aroused. This way, unless both parties are active, willing participants, sexual intercourse is not possible.

stevo3890 writes:

as to making us unable to do stuff as a violation of our free will, maybe, maybe not i don't want to get into it.

Why not?

The fact is that if God created this universe and decided what it's physical constraints and conditions would be, then he has restricted our free will.

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	Message 74 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:20 PM		stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 79 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:57 PM		compmage has replied

compmage

Member (Idle past 5183 days)

Posts: 601

From: South Africa

Joined: 08-04-2005

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Message 81 of 98 (42763)
06-12-2003 5:33 PM

Reply to: Message 79 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 4:57 PM

Re: in his own image

stevo3890 writes:

but we break physical constriants all the time. just because human beings have not been made to fly does it limit our free will?

The constraits I am talking about are things like flying, so yes. However I was concentrating more on acts that cause other people harm. I can not kill you simply by snapping my fingers. God apparently does not think that I should be able to use my free will in this manner, yet he finds it acceptable that I can shot you.

stevo3890 writes:

if human beings could not be killed i think the bible would have said God made other gods as opposed to "in his own image" which to my mind is Free Will.

I can't recall the exact text (maybe someone else can?) but I do remember that God says, after Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that he better get man out of the Eden before we eat from the Tree of Live and become as Gods.

If nobody else can remember this verse I will look it up for you tomorrow.

stevo3890 writes:

Bad analogy to your mind, read my next one about Jim.

I find that one little better for the same reason expressed by zephyr.

stevo3890 writes:

What a excellent idea why don't you put it in God's suggestion box.

If God is all-powerful and all-knowing then I shouldn't have to.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 79 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 4:57 PM		stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 82 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 5:54 PM		compmage has replied

compmage

Member (Idle past 5183 days)

Posts: 601

From: South Africa

Joined: 08-04-2005

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Message 83 of 98 (42839)
06-13-2003 3:42 AM

Reply to: Message 82 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 5:54 PM

Re: in his own image

stevo3890 writes:

Free will does not imply being all knowing and all powerful.

I never said that it did. However God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing and to have given us free will. The whole point of this argument is that free will is not logically possible if God is all-knowing.

If you do not subscribe to this idea then you need to define what you mean by God.

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I also noticed that you didn't address any of my other points.

-----

The passage I was speaking about in an earlier post is Gen 3:22.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 82 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 5:54 PM		stevo3890 has not replied

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