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Author
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Topic: God: Knowable or not Knowable?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 121 of 216 (438568)
12-05-2007 10:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
12-05-2007 9:58 AM
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Either god is knowable or not. No matter what we "prove" or "disprove", we're not going to change what god actually is.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 116 by Phat, posted 12-05-2007 9:58 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Can he make us know him? Sure, he can do anything. What would he have to do to make us know him? We should not assume God can make us know him unless there is some reason to back it. Claiming omnipotence and then scurrying off doesn't back your argument. If he can do it, then show us how he would go about doing it. If not, then your argument is dead.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 123 of 216 (438581)
12-05-2007 11:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 122 by Jon
12-05-2007 11:02 AM
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
What would he have to do to make us know him? I already said that I don't know. And that me not knowing how does not mean that he cannot.
We should not assume God can make us know him unless there is some reason to back it. The reason to back it is his omnipotence.
Claiming omnipotence and then scurrying off doesn't back your argument. How have I scurried off? I'm right here. Or do you mean in the way you've avoided supporting your premise? Basically, omnipotence is my argument. And really, there is no way to argue against it.
If he can do it, then show us how he would go about doing it. If not, then your argument is dead. My argument is very much alive even whithout me being able to explain the "how would". Why does my inability to explain the method mean that the method is impossible? Can you refute the arument? Explain to me how an omnipotent god would be unable to do something.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 122 by Jon, posted 12-05-2007 11:02 AM | | Jon has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 124 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 11:32 AM | | New Cat's Eye has replied | | | Message 127 by bluescat48, posted 12-05-2007 11:54 AM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Explain to me how an omnipotent god would be unable to do something. Irrelevant. The question is "How would you be able to know it was God?"
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 125 of 216 (438586)
12-05-2007 11:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 124 by jar
12-05-2007 11:32 AM
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Explain to me how an omnipotent god would be unable to do something.
Irrelevant. The question is "How would you be able to know it was God?" Hrm, not in the OP. It seems your question is irrelevant. But oh well.
quote:
How would you be able to know it was God?
The simple answer is that you can't. But, if god is omnipotent, then she has the power to make you know that it is her. QED. Exactly how you would know is beyond me. How do you know that you're not in The Matrix?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 124 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 11:32 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 126 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 11:54 AM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Did you say "The simple answer is that you can't."?
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Jon ststes: We should not assume God can make us know him unless there is some reason to back it. Catholic Scientist states: The reason to back it is his omnipotence. Jon states: Claiming omnipotence and then scurrying off doesn't back your argument. Catholic Scientist states: How have I scurried off? I'm right here. Or do you mean in the way you've avoided supporting your premise? Basically, omnipotence is my argument. And really, there is no way to argue against it. Omnipotence is a belief not a fact.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 128 of 216 (438596)
12-05-2007 12:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 126 by jar
12-05-2007 11:54 AM
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Yes, with an added qualifier.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 126 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 11:54 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 131 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 1:44 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Omnipotence is a belief not a fact. Yes, and for the sake of argument, it is assumed to be fact as a premise. If we're talking about something other than an omnipotent god, then we're not talking about what we are talking about.
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Yes, and for the sake of argument, it is assumed to be fact as a premise. Assumed by who? not jon or me.
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
So are you saying that God could make us know but we could not know if it was God making us know?
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
Assumed by who? not jon or me.
Well, by me, at least. If I'm talking about an omnipotent god then that god is assumed to be omnipotent. Jon had no objection to it. Its a pretty common assumption in discussions about god. My argument relies on god's omnipotence. If we don't want to assume that god is omnipotent, then we don't need to address my argument.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 130 by bluescat48, posted 12-05-2007 12:43 PM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 133 of 216 (438625)
12-05-2007 2:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 131 by jar
12-05-2007 1:44 PM
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
So are you saying that God could make us know but we could not know if it was God making us know? No, that's a contradiction. If god could make us know then we would know. By default, we couldn't really know that we knew. But if god can do anything then he can make us really know that we know. I don't really know how we would know, though.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 131 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 1:44 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 134 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 2:34 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
By default, we couldn't really know that we knew. But if god can do anything then he can make us really know that we know. I don't really know how we would know, though. Please parse your assertion.
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 135 of 216 (438630)
12-05-2007 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 134 by jar
12-05-2007 2:34 PM
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Re: Omni [actually] = all
By default, we couldn't really know that we knew. But if god can do anything then he can make us really know that we know.
I don't really know how we would know, though. Please parse your assertion.
No thanks.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 134 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 2:34 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 136 by Jon, posted 12-05-2007 3:56 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied | | | Message 145 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 6:05 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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