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Author Topic:   God: Knowable or not Knowable?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 151 of 216 (438749)
12-06-2007 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Jon
12-06-2007 2:40 AM


Re: meow
Jon writes:
So, then your relationship is not with God, but with some human incarnation? How, then, is it any more special than a relationship with any other human?
I don't know how to answer this question. Jesus is the only character of God that I can know. I cannot limit Gods ability to use other humans to teach me more about His personality, however.
It is my belief that GOD needs to use no other human character than Jesus, but He could conceivably use The Holy Spirit speaking through another human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Jon, posted 12-06-2007 2:40 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 9:43 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 152 of 216 (438786)
12-06-2007 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
12-06-2007 2:55 AM


Re: meow
Do you know Ben Franklin?
Do you know Henry VIII?
Do you know Philip I of Castile?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 12-06-2007 2:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 12-06-2007 11:29 AM jar has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 216 (438790)
12-06-2007 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by jar
12-05-2007 6:40 PM


Re: Omni [actually] = all
If you say:
By default, we couldn't really know that we knew. But if god can do anything then he can make us really know that we know.
I don't really know how we would know, though.
then God might do something but we can not know that God did it?
No. We would really know that we knew.
So again, how can we know that it is God?
I don't know how, but if God is omnipotent, he certainly has the power to make us able to know.
If we are unable to know, then that god is not omnipotent.
ABE:
Actually, strike that last line, it's not really true.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by jar, posted 12-05-2007 6:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 10:08 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 154 of 216 (438792)
12-06-2007 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Jon
12-05-2007 10:25 PM


Re: meow
Jon writes:
What would I have to do to get my cat to understand?
Make it smarter.
How much smarter?
437%
(but seriously, how the hell am I supposed to know?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Jon, posted 12-05-2007 10:25 PM Jon has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 155 of 216 (438793)
12-06-2007 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2007 10:04 AM


Re: Omni [actually] = all
No. We would really know that we knew.
I don't know how, but if God is omnipotent, he certainly has the power to make us able to know.
If we are unable to know, then that god is not omnipotent.
How would we know?
The Heaven's Gate folk "Knew".
The Jonestown folk "Knew".
Charles Manson's followers "Knew".
How would you know?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 10:04 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 10:30 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 216 (438799)
12-06-2007 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
12-06-2007 10:08 AM


Re: Omni [actually] = all
How would you know?
I don't know how. I already said that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 10:08 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 10:43 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 157 of 216 (438801)
12-06-2007 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2007 10:30 AM


Knowing
I don't know how. I already said that.
Yet in each of the cases I mentioned, the people "Knew".

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 10:30 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:01 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 158 of 216 (438804)
12-06-2007 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
12-06-2007 10:43 AM


Re: Knowing
Yet in each of the cases I mentioned, the people "Knew".
So?
How do you "know" that you're not in The Matrix?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : syntax error

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 10:43 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 11:04 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 159 of 216 (438805)
12-06-2007 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2007 11:01 AM


Re: Knowing
Yawn

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:01 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:10 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 216 (438806)
12-06-2007 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by jar
12-06-2007 11:04 AM


Re: Knowing
Typical christian not wanting to examine their beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 11:04 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 11:13 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 161 of 216 (438808)
12-06-2007 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2007 11:10 AM


Re: Knowing
No, simply not letting you change the subject or pull a Gish Gallop. The thread is "God: Knowable or not Knowable?"
I do not allow folk to palm the pea and swap goal posts.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:10 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:28 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 216 (438814)
12-06-2007 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by jar
12-06-2007 11:13 AM


Re: Knowing
I do not allow folk to palm the pea and swap goal posts.
But that is what you are doing.
The thread is "God: Knowable or not Knowable?"
My position is very simple. An omnipotent god has the power to be knowable because they have every/all power(s).
You're the one changing the subject to how we can know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 11:13 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 11:32 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 12-06-2007 12:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 163 of 216 (438815)
12-06-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
12-06-2007 9:43 AM


Re: meow
Jar writes:
Do you know Ben Franklin?
Do you know Henry VIII?
Do you know Philip I of Castile?
No. They all daid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 9:43 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 164 of 216 (438817)
12-06-2007 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2007 11:28 AM


Re: Knowing
My position is very simple. An omnipotent god has the power to be knowable because they have every/all power(s).
Yes, you do make that assertion.
You're the one changing the subject to how we can know.
No, to claim that you know something you should be able to explain how you know.
I provided examples of folk who Knew.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:28 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2007 11:41 AM jar has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 216 (438821)
12-06-2007 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by jar
12-06-2007 11:32 AM


Re: Knowing
My position is very simple. An omnipotent god has the power to be knowable because they have every/all power(s).
Yes, you do make that assertion.
Yes and it is logically sound. All it requires is that god is omnipotent. But we don't really know if he is or not.
No, to claim that you know something you should be able to explain how you know.
But I don't claim to know god and I've admitted that I don't know how we would know god. I'm just saying that it is not impossible if the god is omnipotent. I know that through deductive reasoning.
I provided examples of folk who Knew.
Yeah, uselessly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 12-06-2007 11:32 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by ringo, posted 12-06-2007 1:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
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