What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?

I never even heard of Fred Phelps until I started hanging out at EvC.

But unless you intentionally tune into the radio station it's quite possible not to know they even exist. They rarely make the news.

Well I suppose I just don't watch enough television. That's quite likely. Don't even have Fox News any more. I only see Ann Coulter on the conservative web sites I visit. Robertson was in the news not too long ago but just a blip in the cacaphony of sound bites. But again I suppose I'm just out of the loop. Truly I have not heard of Phelps anywhere but here though. If he's been on the news maybe I just didn't notice.As for leftist Christians, you must be joking. PBS is crawling with them. Ditto NPR. Network news IS leftists. When Robertson or Falwell or Phelps ARE covered, it's from a leftist point of view.And every Easter we are treated to the great Liberal Christian ritual of "questioning" the identity of Jesus Christ in all the major news magazines and TV and the works. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

"Covered" is kinda irrelevant when it's the liberal Christian point of view that DOES the covering. That's the point. Bill Moyers (is he still doing his thing?) IS liberal Christianity. Any Biblical or theological matter that comes up in the news will get the usual liberal Christian authorities out to comment on it.And again, when fundies get covered they get covered FROM a leftist point of view. Well, that's true. Only someone from the far left could find network news "centrist."

I'm not familiar with the Phelpses. It is only from EvC that I have the impression that they say "God hates fags" and that's wrong from many angles. I know nothing whatever about their Christian doctrine or how they justify such a statement. I have no idea what the Phelpses may have said on the subject. With Robertson and Falwell, the fingerpointing at a particular group of sinners as the cause of 9/11 was very wrong, but I agree in general that the sins of this nation are ripe for God's judgment. In my view 9/11 is certainly judgment, but of a very mild sort really, a warning of judgment yet to come. I think the weather disasters are also God's judgment against the US.I have to give Robertson and Falwell credit for pronouncing 9/11 as God's judgment though. There were very few other Christian leaders who did so -- in better doctrinal form, however, than Robertson and Falwell did IMO -- but otherwise Christians had a basically worldly rather than Christian response to the event, the attitude that God couldn't have been in that event at all, and a focusing on worldly enemies instead of on the spiritual disease of the nation. I think mostly that because of their public prominence they are very likely to get caught with foot in mouth, rather than that they hold some doctrinal view I strongly disagree with. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

No, I did not judge the victims at all. That's God's prerogative. God takes us all in our time, and I'm sure many of those victims belonged to Him.God judged the NATION that day, and there is certainly more to come since there are no signs of national repentance that I've seen. Some of our former Presidents called for days of fasting and repentance. I guess we can't expect that any more.Nothing happens without God or do you believe in a God who is powerless over events? Are you aware that the Old Testament was "written for our admonition?" and wouldn't that include the many times it reports that God sent prophets to warn His people and various nations of their coming due for judgment, and the many times it reports how the judgment came upon them? Again, death is not always condemnation of a person, Mr. Rat. Don't you know that scripture admonishes us against thinking so? And again you are denying the sovereign power of God over all things, and again I would point out that I said all these things are judgments upon the NATION as a whole. There are in fact repercussions from both disasters still being felt by the nation as a whole, economic for starters. Economic destruction of the nation is one of the curses God says in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that He would bring upon Israel if they failed to keep up their end of the covenant to obey Him. Again, admonition to us if we would only heed it. Be careful not to be like those Israelites who believed the false prophets of peace instead of the prophets of judgment. Believers are forgiven, Mr. Rat, and surely the death of Christ brought great blessings to the entire world as well, but not forgiveness of sins to any who do not receive Him as Lord. And we ought to look to the OLD Testament for understanding of God's dealings with whole nations rather than individuals. Of course the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is of the same type, and God has not been absent from all the history that has followed the close of the canon either, right down to every nation on earth at this very moment. Or you believe in a lesser God than the One who reigns. God calls Jerusalem itself "Sodom." Don't be so sure He has any higher regard for the US of A. Read those passages about birthing pains prayerfully and carefully. They are harbingers of dreadful judgment against this planet before the coming of God's Kingdom on earth.And it's funny how a supposed Christian should remind me of this passage of scripture:2Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: It's a phony "love" that would lie to people.

And as I already said, and now repeat, the "centrist" media is a myth of the far left. No.

Weird. I guess talking about ideological causes of actions amounts to "racism." Weird.

I'm aware of no hateful statements about the Palestinian people, only analyses of the ideology that drives them.

Thank you for the unbelievable slander. I shall try to learn to rejoice in the misrepresentations of me because God requires that of me. Clearly if someone can misread my clear statements that drastically, something supernatural is afoot.And by the way, YOUR messages are a perfect example of the kind of judgmentalness that Jesus condemned.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The idea that one can judge the behavior and not the person is a delusion. And I'm not talking about Bush.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Do you have any source for your understanding of Jesus' words or the Bible as a whole than your own reading? That is, are you familiar with any commentaries or a variety of preaching on these subjects you are pronouncing on?

As I've said many times before, we are to give help to all sufferers.Are you against preaching against sin as an evangelizing tool? Are you familiar with Ray Comfort? You seem to have the usual false idea of what "love" is.The Holy Spirit does not contradict scripture.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You thoroughly misread what I'm doing by calling it "condemnation." And speaking of being offended, your claim to have the Holy Spirit, with the insinuation that others do not, is very offensive and makes you completely untrustworthy. Some people who claim to follow the Holy Spirit are actually following some other spirit. If you are not grounded in scripture you know not what you are following, and I've had the impression that in general you subordinate scripture to your own personal feelings that you call being led by the Holy Spirit. Since this is really not appropriate to discuss here, please feel free to email me.

You in many posts have explicitly said you have the Holy Spirit, as if that gives you some kind of edge. Odd thing to say if you think we all have the Holy Spirit. And you certainly feel free to tell me what I should and shouldn't be saying as if you know better than I do about Christian teaching. I KNOW I have the Holy Spirit, many experiences of same.But now you are saying that ALL have the Holy Spirit? Even nonChristians? You are even more out of sync with scripture and Christian teaching than I thought. I pray frequently about what I write here, and concerning this particular message I have had specific Holy Spirit leadings. It is sheer ignorance on your part to call what I'm saying "judging." It is prophetic warning, not judging. Judging is what God does, and He sometimes does it through calamities.