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Author | Topic: The Power of the New Intelligent Design... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Dredge writes: Life has meaning only if it's eternal. A finite life is as meaningless as meaningless can get. Just because you can't find meaning in a finite life does not prevent others from finding meaning in a finite life. Given the ignorance you have spread on this forum, I doubt your opinion on these matters would sway anyone.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: The atheist's anthem ... "We're on a road to nowhere", song by Talking Heads, 1985. It's rather sad that you have to have to believe in an afterlife in order to have meaning. The journey is the meaning, not the destination.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: The (atheist) journey starts from a state of meaninglessness (pre-birth/conception) and its destination is death, which is also state of meaninglessness. It's the journey in between that has meaning. You seem like the worst kind of person to travel with. All you would want to do is get to the hotel at the end of the drive, missing all of the wonderful scenery and comradery along the way.
So you're saying the journey from a state of meaninglessness back to a state of meaninglessness has "meaning". Absolutely. Don't your loved ones mean something to you? Doesn't the experience of walking through nature and seeing beautiful sights mean anything to you? Doesn't time spent with friends enjoying each others' company mean anything to you? Does learning new things mean anything to you? What a horrible life you must live.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: Atheists worship the Great False god of Equality, Projection once again. In order to try and discredit atheists you try to make them look more like you. That says a lot.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: ???????????????? You try and discredit atheists by claiming they are worshipping a god, all the while you are worshipping a god yourself. You try to take the weakness you see in yourself and project it onto others as a way of dealing with your own weakness. This is called psychological projection.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Dredge writes: However, after giving your theory due consideration, I've come to the conclusion that it's devoid of merit. Sorry. Then why do you try and claim that atheists are worshipping a god? What's the point of making that argument? Aren't you trying to discredit atheists with that argument?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: The thread concerns itself with intelligent design and I think the reason atheists struggle with that simple concept is that recognizing intelligent design in nature requires a certain degree of intelligence. We don't struggle with the concept. We recognize it for what it is, a subjective opinion. More to the point, ID can't explain the most basic observations in biology, such as the nested hierarchy and the patterns of sequence divergence in genomes.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Dredge writes:
God is perfectly capable of creating nested hierarchies God is also perfectly capable of creating patterns other than a nested hierarchy. There is absolutely no reason why we would expect to see a nested hierarchy if species were created separately. The only reason we would expect to see a nested hierarchy is if species evolved from a common ancestor.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: Really? Do you think God is incapable of creating nested hierarchies? A nested hierarchy is just one of billions or trillions of possible patterns of shared and derived features that God could produce. So why do we see the one pattern of trillions that just so happens to be the one pattern that common descent and evolution would produce? Why would God limit himself to a nested hierarchy when it is entirely unnecessary?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
sensei writes: What is limiting about a hierarchy? In a nested hierarchy there are billions of different gene and feature combinations that can not exist. For example, you can not have a species that has a mixture of mammal and bird features. You can't have a creature with jellyfish and mouse genes. A nested hierarchy severely limits what you can do which is why humans don't force their designs into a nested hierarchy, and that includes organisms that humans design.
What is unnecessary about it? You don't need a nested hierarchy in order to get functional designs.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
sensei writes: You would expect a different pattern? Which one? We would expect a non-nested hierarchy because that is what human designs fall into. There is absolutely no reason why separately created species/kinds should fall into a nested hierarchy. For example, a separately created kind could have feathers, tidal lungs, teats, and three middle ear bones. There is no reason why a separately created species would have feathers simply because it did not have three middle ear bones like mammals do. There is no reason why a species could not have flow through lungs and hair. There is no reason why a species could not have a forward facing retina and a spinal column. The only reason we would not expect to find these mixture of features is if species evolved from common ancestors with vertical inheritance.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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sensei writes: If we would generate millions of totally random DNA sequencies, the sequences can always be arranged in a nested hierarchy. But those sequences will have a very low phylogenetic signal. This isn't the case with the genomes of species. Instead, there is a very strong phylogenetic signal. In fact, the measure of tree-like structure in DNA sequences from species is compared to random sequences as a negative control. On top of that, there are two nested hierarchies: morphology and DNA sequence. There is absolutely no reason why these two nested hierarchies should match, but they do.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
sensei writes: If you take one lottery ticket out of a million, it will always be one ticket out of a million. Any other ticket would also be one out of a million, with the exact same probability. There is only one ticket out of that million that evolution would produce, and that is a nested hierarchy. We can observe populations producing that same phylogenetic signal in real time, and it is due to common ancestry, evolution, and vertical inheritance.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
sensei writes: So because their are no elephants with bird wings or anything like that, you find that to be strong evidence for evolution? Because we don't find numerous and obvious violations of the pattern we would expect from evolution, we take that as strong evidence for evolution. When the observations match what the theory predicts that is evidence for the theory. That's how science works.
You gonna need to do better than this. Why?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
sensei writes: Do you understand that one ticket has the same probability as any other single ticket? Yes, I do understand that. Do you? There are 999,999 tickets that don't match evolution. There is only 1 ticket that does. What ticket do we see? The one that matches evolution.
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