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Author Topic:   Neither a theist nor an atheist
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 57 of 118 (732732)
07-10-2014 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Coyote
07-08-2014 12:14 AM


Re: I'm confused...
And, between absolutes, how is any "middle path" possible anyway?
It's the same as being a little bit pregnant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Coyote, posted 07-08-2014 12:14 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by granpa, posted 07-10-2014 1:11 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 62 of 118 (732748)
07-10-2014 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by granpa
07-10-2014 1:11 PM


Re: I'm confused...
Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no? Or are you asking agnostic?
How can you be just a little bit atheistic? Either you believe in a deity or set of deities, or you don't. It is just like being pregnant. You are either pregnant, or you aren't. There isn't some middle path where you are a little bit pregnant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by granpa, posted 07-10-2014 1:11 PM granpa has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by granpa, posted 07-10-2014 3:09 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 64 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-10-2014 3:29 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 65 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-11-2014 9:54 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 67 of 118 (732833)
07-11-2014 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by PurpleYouko
07-11-2014 9:54 AM


Re: I'm confused...
Surely there are degrees of certainty in a person's beliefs.
You can still have a firm belief in the face of 100% uncertainty. I think they call it faith.
I would place myself at about 95% along a scale towards Atheism since I have yet to see any evidence saying otherwise yet I am unable to hold the absolute conviction that God does not exist.
Atheism does not require a belief in the absence of God. All atheism requires is a lack of a positive belief in God which would make you 100% atheist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-11-2014 9:54 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-11-2014 4:44 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 70 of 118 (732861)
07-11-2014 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by PurpleYouko
07-11-2014 4:44 PM


Re: I'm confused...
If you have a firm (let's say absolute) belief in something then you are, by definition, 100% certain that you are correct.
Belief and knowledge are two different things. Belief is what you have in the absence of knowledge, in the absence of certainty.
personally I agree with you that atheism is just a lack of belief. nothing more and nothing less but my experience has been that most people see atheists as having a positive belief in the absence of God.
A lack of a belief is enough to get above the bar. Anything additional is just more clearance over that bar.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 71 of 118 (732862)
07-11-2014 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
07-11-2014 6:13 PM


Re: I'm confused...
Since I was mentioned I'll answer, yes, that's of course very true. There is no such thing as faith in anything you don't believe is true.
There is no faith if you have evidence that it is true. Faith is a belief held in the absence of evidence. Without evidence you do not have certainty. However, you can still have the convictions of your faith based beliefs. The problem seems to be that people are confusing conviction with certainty.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 07-11-2014 6:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Faith, posted 07-14-2014 3:00 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 92 of 118 (733177)
07-14-2014 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Faith
07-14-2014 3:00 AM


Re: Faith is built on evidence
You must have evidence in order to have faith.
If you have evidence, why do you need faith?
As I said there is no such thing as faith in anything you don't believe is true.
You don't need evidence in order to believe something is true.
Eventually it proved itself to me.
There is no such thing as personal evidence. When we say evidence, we meen objective evidence that is independent of a single subjective experience.
And faith, by the way, the faith that requires evidence, is in "things unseen."
If they are unseen or undetectable, then you have no evidence.
You are so twisted around that you are defining evidence as not having evidence.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Faith, posted 07-14-2014 3:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 07-14-2014 11:16 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 107 of 118 (733294)
07-15-2014 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
07-14-2014 11:16 PM


Re: Faith is built on evidence
The evidence is of the reality of God and His character and the inspired nature of the Bible,
Those are also beliefs, not evidence. All you have offered in their support is "I believe".
there's a whole message of life and salvation I have to believe and trust in in order to live it, Jesus as my savior who died for me so that I could have eternal life.
If you had mountains of evidence demonstrating that the message was accurate, would you need faith? No.
The witness evidence gives you reason to trust it, then you live it on faith.
Why would you need faith if you claim to have evidence that it is true?
The evidence is the basis for the faith in things unseen.
That is the biggest ball of nonsense in the Bible. If it is unseen, then it isn't evidenced. It's not that hard to figure out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 07-14-2014 11:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 07-16-2014 12:30 AM Taq has replied
 Message 109 by 1.61803, posted 07-16-2014 10:03 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 116 of 118 (733391)
07-16-2014 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Faith
07-16-2014 4:17 PM


Re: Faith is built on evidence
All I'm saying is that nobody puts their faith, or trust, in someone or in a message, that is not supported by some kind of evidence. John told of Jesus' many miracles so we could believe that He is the Messiah sent by God, and in fact IS God Himself, and if we believe that then we'll put our trust in Him for salvation.
Like you said, you have to believe it is true. That is not evidence. That is belief. Evidence is something you can demonstrate independently of the person making the claim. You are putting your faith in John with no evidence that he is telling the truth.
The idea that anybody takes anything "on faith" without any supporting evidence at all is humanly impossible.
Then what evidence do you have that the gospels are true?

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 Message 114 by Faith, posted 07-16-2014 4:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 117 of 118 (733392)
07-16-2014 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
07-16-2014 12:30 AM


Re: Faith is built on evidence
I said the evidence is OF the reality of God, the evidence POINTS TO the reality of God etc.
What is that evidence?
All you have offered so far is that you believe God has certain characteristics. That is not evidence.

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 Message 108 by Faith, posted 07-16-2014 12:30 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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