Neither a theist nor an atheist

Since I was mentioned I'll answer, yes, that's of course very true. There is no such thing as faith in anything you don't believe is true.

Well, that is wrong, or some of it is wrong and some of it is too confused for me to figure out. You must have evidence in order to have faith. As I said there is no such thing as faith in anything you don't believe is true. But coming to believe in the truth of the Biblical revelation can be a struggle because initially there are lots of doubts. At least that was my experience. Eventually it proved itself to me. I couldn't have had faith until then.And faith, by the way, the faith that requires evidence, is in "things unseen." You must have faith in something you can't see or experience directly, and the evidence is given to lead you to that faith, evidence in the form of witnesses to the miracles and historical facts that demonstrate the reality of God. Faith is ultimately in God, in an unseen Person, in His trustworthiness. Faith in fact is a form of trust. You don't trust someone who hasn't proved himself to you to be trustworthy. That's just normal human psychology.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It makes no sense to speak of "faith in spooks." Faith is a form of trust. You can believe or disbelieve in spooks, you can't have faith in them.

The hearing that leads to faith is the hearing of the gospel and that leads to the faith in things unseen.True, people often deny the evidence that would lead to faith. But faith is never without evidence.

Oh DON"T be stupid. I believe there are evil entities that are not to be trusted.

No. You have to have evidence but it's for something you cannot see, that's where faith enters. I believe in a God I can't see, but I believe because of the evidence given by others of His existence and His character. The evidence is witness evidence, testimony, and if you refuse to accept that as evidence then you'll never believe, but it IS evidence. God gave some people physical evidence, miracles. Those people reported it to us. He isn't going to give us that kind of evidence. As Jesus said, "Blessed are those who did not see and yet believed." Because they believed what the witnesses told them. This is false. You want a certain KIND of evidence. But there is certainly evidence galore of witness evidence.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The quote is from the Bible, the only thing it could be talking about is the hearing of the gospel of salvation. Hearing anything else isn't going to save anybody. What good can it do to have faith in something false? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The evidence is of the reality of God and His character and the inspired nature of the Bible, but just believing those things isn't the point, there's a whole message of life and salvation I have to believe and trust in in order to live it, Jesus as my savior who died for me so that I could have eternal life. Life changes when you come to believe, everything changes. You go from one life to another and you live the new life entirely by faith in the revelation about it. The witness evidence gives you reason to trust it, then you live it on faith. Oh it's completely objective, I'm far from the only one it proves itself to. You recognize it or you don't. Plenty do, many more don't. The evidence is the basis for the faith in things unseen. If you simply refuse to believe there could be anything unseen of any worth then all the evidence there is won't lead you there. You closed the door yourself.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But WE don't "get worth," I was talking about God's having worth Himself, and His message of salvation and other "unseen things." Oh we're all different but we're all also human beings, "made in the image of God." And the Biblical revelation gives one exclusive way of salvation to all human beings.Emphasize: It does claim to be exclusive: The Bible reveals that all the religions are man-made deceptions, which often were inspired by demons. Satan is "the prince of this world" since he deceived our parents and brought about the Fall, and his army of fallen angels have ruled nations ever since. Jesus came to defeat the devil and he did defeat the devil but we have to choose Him over the devil still: If God has ordained only one way to salvation, choosing any other way is a terrible deception to avoid at all costs.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Faith is the evidence of things unseen, it's the faculty by which we know the things of the Spirit of God, but we firstl have to have evidence of the reality and nature of God to be willing to invest our faith in Him and His Biblical revelation, and that's what a lot of the Bible is for: to give us the evidence so that we can believe and come to the faith that is the evidence of things unseen.John writes toward the end of his gospel that he could have written much more but what he did write he wrote "so that you may believe," clearly meaning he was giving us the evidence on which we could believe: Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oh well since you aren't talking to me I'll address this to Stile:What CS just said to you and not to me includes that you MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS. "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN ME..." He also included the part that says there is evidence to help you believe in Him, the WORKS HE HAS DONE>Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I DID NOT say those things are evidence. I said the evidence is OF the reality of God, the evidence POINTS TO the reality of God etc. But you aren't interested in following the logic, you'd rather talk to your own straw man.

Well, I'm basing it on the Bible and on the best teachers of the Bible, mostly in the Protestant Reformed camp. People make up all kinds of things about faith, about God etc., which is a very risky thing to do, especially since God gave us the Bible to spare us such mistakes. The idea that faith is a gamble is one of those things people make up, there is nothing in the Bible that treats faith that way. As I already noted, John said that he gave the information about Jesus in his gospel for the purpose of convincing people to believe in Him. In other words he gave it as evidence that Jesus is God and has the power and will to save those who put their trust in Him.There are people who won't accept it anyway of course, who just refuse to believe in miracles no matter how many Jesus is said to have done, but the evidence is there for those who trust John's descriptions.God doesn't want knowing of Him or of our salvation to be something we risk, He wants us to know. ("that you might believe." The same idea is given in other places but I'm not coming up with the right words for the search.) But again, there are plenty who will simply refuse the evidence. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

All I'm saying is that nobody puts their faith, or trust, in someone or in a message, that is not supported by some kind of evidence. John told of Jesus' many miracles so we could believe that He is the Messiah sent by God, and in fact IS God Himself, and if we believe that then we'll put our trust in Him for salvation.The idea that anybody takes anything "on faith" without any supporting evidence at all is humanly impossible. You have to trust someone or some argument given or some message given, SOMETHING, before you'll put your faith in the person or the message. Sure, people may make bad judgments about who and what is trustworthy, but the point is they do make such judgments before they invest their faith. There is no such thing as a truly "blind" faith, or a "leap of faith."