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Author Topic:   ANOTHER Political Quiz
anglagard
Member (Idle past 943 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 33 of 102 (725912)
05-03-2014 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by AZPaul3
05-02-2014 7:29 PM


Direct Democracy vs. Human Rights
I could not agree more with this post.
Those who are acquainted with history are well aware of various expressions of popular rule that have happened over time.
Lynch mobs in the US as late as the 1950s, Pogroms against Jews in Europe in revenge for the purported blood libel that culminated in the Holocaust. The murder of "witches" still occurring in some parts of Africa to this day.
Those are only the most egregious, I could go on for pages.
The system we have now in the US royally sucks because it is incredibly corrupt, but if one is familiar with history, they will know it has always been that way. It is a constant struggle to maintain the slightest semblance of democracy in this nation. As for others, in almost all cases, it appears there is quite a mixed record as well.
Now to quote the obvious that I am sure most here have heard before:
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
-Winston Churchill
If anybody has a better way to rule over the people, please feel free to let us know. Don't even say direct democracy - been there, done that.
.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by AZPaul3, posted 05-02-2014 7:29 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Dogmafood, posted 05-04-2014 11:43 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 943 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 35 of 102 (725915)
05-03-2014 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by frako
05-01-2014 8:36 AM


Results
On a lighter note, here are my test results - for whatever it's worth:
Dem. - 91
Gre. - 91
Soc. - 57
Lib. - 46
Rep. - 27
As a firm believer in freedom, liberty, equality, and social justice my only comment is this:
First Fox News came after me for calling myself a liberal and I did nothing, then they came after me for calling myself a libertarian and I did nothing, the they came after me for calling myself an intellectual and I did nothing, then they came after me for calling myself a human being and ...............

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by frako, posted 05-01-2014 8:36 AM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Dogmafood, posted 05-04-2014 11:47 AM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 943 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 45 of 102 (725955)
05-04-2014 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Dogmafood
05-04-2014 11:47 AM


What do You Want?
ProtoTypical writes:
Except that you don't really believe in freedom and equality. You believe that the people need to be told what to do by the elite wielders of power.
Before we get into some game of trading insults, I want you to know that as a Anarcho-Syndicalist Libertarian (for as long as Fox News and others allow us to define the term), I actually have some sympathy toward your ideals, it is just coupled with a lot of skepticism.
Perhaps one of us could start a new thread detailing exactly to what extent direct democracy could be implemented.
Such a thread could be used to explain:
Who is allowed to vote?
What level of detail would such voting comprise?
Would this replace all functions, executive, legislative, and judicial -- or would the judgement of guilt or innocence be exempt from the popular will of those unfamiliar with the details of each particular case?
Which laws would be the purview of the federal, state, or county level? Would all decisions be nationwide?
Who would be empowered to write the actual wording of each referendum bought before the people at large?
Those are just a few of those "devil in the details" things I am curious about. I am eager to see your response.
Edited by anglagard, : Replaced the term me with us as I am not the only self-defined Anarcho-Syndacalist Libertarian, as Noam Chomsky still lives.
Edited by anglagard, : Had to add to definition of popular will as around these parts one is still purportedly judged by a jury of their peers.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Dogmafood, posted 05-04-2014 11:47 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Dogmafood, posted 05-05-2014 8:07 PM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 943 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 50 of 102 (726220)
05-07-2014 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Dogmafood
05-05-2014 8:07 PM


Re: What do You Want?
OK, I think we are off to a reasonable discussion that could be quite informative, if not enlightening.
For a start, I would like to point out that several states in the US west of the Mississippi have a referendum process whereby to some degree, at least in regard to state law, there is a form of direct democracy. It may not be as immediate as possible in the internet age (nor given temporary passions, should it be to some extent IMHO), however it is what it is, a form of direct democracy.
For the breakdown of states that allow the majority of citizens to overturn the consensus of their elected representatives concerning either the state amendments or their state statutes or both -- here it is.
Considering this is actual evidence for or against the effectiveness of direct democracy, perhaps the historical data concerning each state where it has been implemented should be deeply examined.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Dogmafood, posted 05-05-2014 8:07 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Dogmafood, posted 05-08-2014 9:15 AM anglagard has not replied
 Message 63 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2014 5:20 PM anglagard has not replied

  
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