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Author Topic:   ANOTHER Political Quiz
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 102 (725737)
05-01-2014 8:26 AM


2022 Political Quiz
Parties you side with...
Green Party 99%
on environment, social, domestic policy, economic, foreign policy, immigration, health-care and education issues
Democrats 97%
on environment, domestic policy, social, economic, immigration, health-care and education issues
Socialist 71%
on social, economic and health-care issues
Libertarians 39%
on foreign policy and immigration issues
Republicans 4%
no major issues
Where do you stand?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 102 (725849)
05-02-2014 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dogmafood
05-02-2014 10:59 AM


Re: Political Math
No wonder its all screwed up...everybody has 300% worth of opinions.
LOL, but not how it works:
Message 1
My views match 99% of Green Party views, 97% of Democrat Party views, 71% of Socialist Party views, 39% of Libertarian Party views, and 4% of Republican Party views.
Too bad they don't isolate Tea Party views ... for the corporate fascists ...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 17 of 102 (725851)
05-02-2014 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dogmafood
05-02-2014 10:59 AM


representation
No wonder its all screwed up...everybody has 300% worth of opinions.
And by the same token no one candidate represents all my views on all the topics.
Perhaps one should vote\elect 3 or 4 people instead of one?
For instance say you can vote for 3 different people for congress, no two votes for the same person.
This would tend to reduce the impact of single issue votes and break up the two party system.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 23 of 102 (725871)
05-02-2014 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by AZPaul3
05-02-2014 4:47 PM


Re: Let the Internet rule! with Occupy Rules
What checks and balances are there on the powers of the majority in a direct democracy? And what would stop the majority from overturning those checks by a simple show of hands?
Interesting perspective from the Occupy Movement, where consensus rather than majority was the rule and dissenting voices were more powerful than assenting: if you disagreed your opinion was heard and concepts were altered to accommodate you.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 58 of 102 (726358)
05-08-2014 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ringo
05-08-2014 11:40 AM


simple bills -- simplify simplify simplify
As I said, they would become less interested as the level of detail increased. Only those who were interested in the details would participate. ...
We already have instances of representatives voting on bills they haven't read, so I don't really think that would stop some people from doing so. They would just rely on Faux Noise to tell them how to vote ...
... as the level of detail increased. ...
One question is why does the level of detail increase? Because it is written by lawyers, to include loop-holes for special interests or because it is necessary to describe the whole concept.
Take healthcare for an example: the bill is huge even by average bill size standards.
A simple(r) bill would be
Medicare for everyone
A more complex version would have it phase in over a period of years, say by lowering the eligibility age every year.
Or it could be passed as an amendment to Medicare ... building on previous legislation rather than re-inventing it.
ProtoTypical writes:
I think that what will soon become apparent is the need for a better informed electorate and the need for an increase in the free flow of information.
We've needed that for centuries. I'm not holding my breath.
What you could have would be a debate on the internet with facilitators trained to work towards a consilience of opinions. People could follow and then decide on the merits of the arguments.
Take minimum wage ... the majority of people support it. There can be a simple bill:
Minimum wage to be offered is $15/hr.
Or income tax
50% on total earnings over $50,000.00/yr
The advantage of simple bills is no loopholes and "clean" bills.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 61 of 102 (726364)
05-08-2014 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
05-08-2014 1:46 PM


Re: simple bills -- simplify simplify simplify
You didn't address this part:
quote:
What you could have would be a debate on the internet with facilitators trained to work towards a consilience of opinions. People could follow and then decide on the merits of the arguments.
This could operate in the fashion of the Occupy Movement General Meetings to arrive at a consensus rather than simple up\down majority vote approach.
And then there are conventions where laws could be discussed and then voted on, similar to
quote:
Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
No doubt. I'm suggesting that that would not be an improvement.
Which is an argument for clean simple bills with no frills and loopholes.
Both. And because life is complicated.
Which two of the three are both?
Sometimes life is simple, and I like to go with Thoreau: simplify simplify simplify.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 74 of 102 (726828)
05-13-2014 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by NoNukes
05-09-2014 7:32 PM


Mix and Match
Perhaps the best option is a mixture of representation and direct democracy.
Representatives do the brunt of day to day business
Reps are subject to recall votes as a direct check\balance on their voting
Pay for reps decided by direct votes
BTW -- why are reps in US congress paid by the Federal Gov't: shouldn't they be paid by the states they represent?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 76 of 102 (726845)
05-13-2014 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Omnivorous
05-13-2014 11:44 AM


Re: Mix and Match
Maybe they shouldn't be paid at all. They're almost all millionaires--if not when they take office, shortly after.
And they don't need no steenkin pension either ...
My view mirrors Poul Anderson's Dominic Flandry, ...
Not (gasp) Heinlein? Then there is Nicholas van Rijn ... corporate scalawag ...
I find direct democracy a terrifying notion. At least our representative democracy often slows things down enough for the fever of the day to pass.
It seems to me that representatives should not be in a position to make decisions that affect them without affecting the people they represent (pay, healthcare, pension, etc) and that these should be decided (or at least approved) by direct votes during the next election.
Should Supreme Court decisions be validated\approved by direct votes? What is the process to check and balance these decisions? What should it be?
Representative democracy will always be open\subject to corruption and corrupting influences, so how can we put a check on that process?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 85 of 102 (727330)
05-17-2014 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Dogmafood
05-17-2014 12:15 PM


Referendum DD at End of Term/s
Here's a thought -
At the end of a representatives term of office there is a referendum where all the voters they represent review each of the choices/votes cast by the representative
agree or disagree on each item
If total (agree) < total (disagree) votes, then they cannot run for reelection. There is no campaigning, no ads, nothing but the list of actual performance in office decisions.
Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 87 of 102 (727342)
05-17-2014 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Dogmafood
05-17-2014 1:42 PM


Re: Referendum DD at End of Term/s
As it is now if the rep doesn't measure up then they do not get reelected.
Except they are mostly campaigning with lots of dollars in fairly secure districts.
And I think the referendum votes should be yes/no with no record of the reps record.
Why the separation between the vote and the people?
That's your cooloff time.
(abe) this could be a way to introduce DD
Edited by RAZD, : ?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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