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Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
Why?
Did ugly people write errant stuff and claim it's inspired by god, then form religions around the errancy?. Then ya, I have a problem with that.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
The question is, why is the authenticity important to you? You say this:
On the other hand, internal inconsistencies, if any, could suggest that it is not authentic
Then follow it up with suggestion that I'm now trying to hard to find unimpressive inconsistencies. I know Treasure Island isn't authentic - i.e. the characters never existed, the events never happened - but it's still one of my favorite books. Would it have more value to me if it was "authentic"? No. So why do you care about the authenticity of the Bible?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
Why can't it be authentic fiction?
The bible is not authentic.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. What if we found it was really written by an obscure ghost writer? Would that revelation not impact us? Only the looniest of Bible literalists believe that Moses really wrote Genesis. Do we throw out the stories of the Garden of Eden, the Tower of Babel, the Flood and the partriarchs because we know Moses wasn't there to witness them? Of course not.
Phat writes:
It wouldn't change anything. Stevenson is famous because of Treasure Island, not vice versa.
How would it change the romantic wistful appeal of such a book if it were revealed that the true author was an obscure person from anywhere known by no one and having no other credentials nor reputable works aside from that one?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Golffly writes:
The writer[s] of that particular story said that (they believed that) God did it. There's no God character in the story claiming to do it.
The bible says god did it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
That isn't quite what I said. Let me try again, with emphasis: The writer(s) of that particular story SAID that they believed that God did it. Maybe they really believed it; maybe they were just making a point. There's no good reason to conclude superstition or unreliability.
If the point is the writer is superstitious and made an error thinking god did it.. I agree, he's very superstitious and unreliable. Golffly writes:
Lots of things only happened once. Lots of things that may nave happened more than once were no recorded at all.
If the point is two bears can naturally maul 42 kids.. then that is the only time in recorded history. Golffly writes:
That 'point' is a Duh! I don't know why you would even mention it.
The point, that I can't seem to make here, is either god is a nut or the writer is writing myth. I submit the later is likely.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Golffly writes:
What difference does it make if Stevenson thinks Jim Hawkins did it or Jim Hawkins claims to have done it? Did Stevenson have to believe that Jim Hawkins really existed? Would it make any difference to the story?
What difference does it make if the writer "thinks" god did it or god "claims" to have done it? Golffly writes:
"Truth" is not a particularly useful concept here. It's possible for fictional characters to make "true" statements. Fiction can portray "truth".
I am suggesting he isn't offering truthful statements. Golffly writes:
You have only a lack of evidence for your so-called "rules". if you want to claim that it's impossible for the bear story to be literally true, you'll need positive evidence.
If we want to suggest rules were different for animals 2000 plus years ago, that needs some evidence.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
No, I'm just saying that talking about leprechauns or voodoo or gods in a story doesn't necessarily indicate superstition. The bear story makes a point (which some people might call karma). The authors most likely did believe in God but that belief is not necessary to the story. In the story, the God character is just the "messenger of karma".
It seems as if you might be implying that belief in some things like leprechauns or voodoo can rightly considered superstitions, but that belief in other things like gods or God cannot be considered superstitions. Am I correct in interpreting it this way?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
We already knew that some people don't believe it's a myth and that some people don't believe God is nuts. Your interpretation of the stories isn't the only possible interpretation.
I need to mention it because no nukes is certainly not wanting to say it's myth. Nor will be say the god depicted is nuts.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
Rational and logical thought don't require us to nit-pick every detail. Forty-two is not an entirely implausible number; rejecting it out of hand is pretty silly. I hope that isn't a prime example of your "rational and logical" thought.
There is a point where rational has to factor in.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Golffly writes:
Who said it was about "justice"? Justice varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from time to time. What is the purported biblical justice for this minor thing. It's about consequences. There are always consequences, whether just or not.
Golffly writes:
They don't need to explain it to your satisfaction, only their own.
Because if somebody does believe they happened, then they need a lot of explaining as to why.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
But since it isn't a revelation of reality - or even a good facsimile - we know it's not the word of God. It's the word of men claiming to speak for God, but men who didn't have a very good understanding of reality. And people who don't have a good understanding of reality mistake it for "real". You demonstrate that every time you touch your keyboard.
... when you know it's God's own communication to us then you know that it is a revelation of reality itself.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
When nobody can read what you write, maybe it's the writing that needs improvement.
Why can't you people read?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Golffly writes:
You need a secret decoder ring.
Do they all require the special magical read, and how did you get qualified to be able to do that?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Belief in the resurrection explains the rise of the early church, just like belief in other things explains the rise of other churches. Belief in X does not necessarily correlate with reality of X.
I also have yet to find a version of the explanation for the rise of the early church that IMHO is reasonable, whereas an historical resurrection easily explains it.
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