Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse?
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 123 of 316 (683841)
12-13-2012 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by New Cat's Eye
12-13-2012 1:33 PM


Re: Who is the greatest burden?
No doubt our system sucks.
I'm not convined that there are not additional (future) costs to an overly obese population other than that immediate 10% increase.
Consider that Wlefare families are covered by Medicaid and that fat kids abound in Single Mother Families.They also get free drugs.
The cost of Welfare is now $1 trillion dollars a year, more that the whole Military Budget.
The enemy within is destroying us financially and reducing our ability to fend of foreign invaders, like Islam and N. Korea, and China.
Immorality especially sexual is the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-13-2012 1:33 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Eli, posted 12-13-2012 11:02 PM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 126 by Dogmafood, posted 12-14-2012 6:06 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 125 of 316 (683970)
12-14-2012 5:42 PM


Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse than "the system of things," the Liberal adolescent-sex-promoting culture itself which encourages the ever increasing Single Mothers?
If an irreligious blasphemimg adult population mocks the recommended prudence of the churches who try to make pre-marital sex a shame, divorce impossible, and early marriage the alternative to 14 years of irresponsible sexual behavior for the next generation, isn't ot you guys who bash the Bibke that is worse than any other group.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 11:00 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 127 of 316 (684044)
12-15-2012 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Dogmafood
12-14-2012 6:06 PM


Re: Who is the greatest burden?
Who is the greatest burden?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cost of Welfare is now $1 trillion dollars a year, more that the whole Military Budget.
Tsk tsk, what is the world coming to? Next thing you know you will feeding the hungry with no identifiable return on investment.
.... WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY,... yep, that is the grand plan.
The question is whether the policies of a government taking other people's money rather than the Church collecting free will donations has been a good change or bad change in regard to Charity.
Could 50% of all the babies born in 2011 be illegitimate and fatherless under the previous system?
Does the FACT that children raised by Single Mothers commit 70% of all violent crime and most of all the other social problems mean America is incubating trouble that could double immediately if Abortions stopped, since we also kill 1/3 of the potential Welfare babies?
Does it make sense that the inner cities in America are now so dangerous Americans can not enter them for the most part during the day, except down town???
Does the liberal refuse to see a bad plan when it is a cancer about to kill the nation?
Don't we need more christianity, "I am the truth,"....?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Dogmafood, posted 12-14-2012 6:06 PM Dogmafood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by hooah212002, posted 12-15-2012 7:20 PM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 10:59 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 131 of 316 (685554)
12-23-2012 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taq
12-17-2012 10:59 AM


Re: Who is the greatest burden?
We tried the charity route during the Great Depression.
It failed miserably. It was only through government intervention that people were saved from starvation, and the only way they found work through WPA programs. While people were starving the church was dusting their guilded halls.
The propaganda since 1933 is knee deep.
Read some current histories that question all praise for FDR programs.
What really happened is just a duplication of 2008-2012.
The media and politician made certain that every potential consumer was too scared to spend money he had.
They put it under their bed, instead.
Taxing and spending does not increase the size of the business community, because the taxes that are collected from one person who would have spent that money otherwise, goes to someone else the government hires who spends it instead.
But the net Consumer Spending is unchanged.
Unless the Consumer Spending goes up, no jobs will come on line.
What FDR did was provoke Japan into starting something so the War would suck unemployed workers out of the job market, and created weapons and military demand along with rationing and deprivation.
If the Japanese hadn't bombed us into economic expansion, FDR would have run out of borrowing and other people's money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 10:59 AM Taq has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 132 of 316 (685563)
12-23-2012 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Taq
12-17-2012 11:00 AM


Other socialist countries are much more liberal than the US, and yet their healthcare costs are half of what ours is and violence is much lower, all with less religiosity than the US.
Really...
Like the PIIGS of Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Taq, posted 12-17-2012 11:00 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by anglagard, posted 12-25-2012 4:28 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 135 of 316 (685741)
12-26-2012 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Panda
12-25-2012 10:41 PM


Re: Hubris
kofh2u has never been one to let facts get in the way of his opinions.
Give us the number of one thread where you liberal minded self assured Politically Correct progressives here have allowed me to get away with an opinion unsupported by facts in the same post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Panda, posted 12-25-2012 10:41 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Panda, posted 12-27-2012 10:22 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 136 of 316 (685745)
12-26-2012 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by anglagard
12-25-2012 4:28 PM


Re: Hubris
All of these nations provide universal health care for half of what it costs per individual in the USA. Why?
Here I am focused on what is hurting our USA Health Care System.
1) America almost has had a Universal Health Care System in place, with 40% of the American Families now getting free medicaid as part of the Welfare benefit package.
And give or take the 10% of the young people who refuse to buy Insurance, the 10% of the uninsured between jobs at all times, the 10% illegals, and 10% working poor who are those people who actually will still be left out, Obamacare seems way expensive.
The estimated $10.5 Trillion dollar Budget increase for Welfare plus this $1.7 Trillion dollar Obamacare increase ads to $12.2 Trillion dollars which seems important to examine.
Pretty much doubling every ten years?
2) What I see as hurting the Health Care System is the INCREASE of Demand for service, which has had the effect of increasing the price of Health Care.
The focus of the government ought be on the Medical Professions strangle hold on teaching/licensing doctors and nurses.
The KOFHOCARE Health System would focus on producing more Supply of Drugs and Services so comopetition and availablity would reduce costs and improve the medical services.
Don't you see 17% inflation in Health Care as the real problem.
With inflation now at 0% according to the Fed, (LOL), 17% for this one sector is rather strange.
And won't Obamacare just make things worse by foring Demand higher by "covering" everyone who will pay their n=bill with other peoples' money????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by anglagard, posted 12-25-2012 4:28 PM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by vimesey, posted 12-26-2012 6:29 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 138 of 316 (685779)
12-26-2012 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by vimesey
12-26-2012 6:29 PM


Re: Hubris
For crying out loud kofh2u, it has been pointed out to you more than once that the graph you use above has had the figures on the y-axis falsified by a power of ten.
It "has been pointed out"... where???
I'll check back.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by vimesey, posted 12-26-2012 6:29 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by vimesey, posted 12-27-2012 4:37 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 143 of 316 (685813)
12-27-2012 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by ICANT
12-27-2012 2:37 AM


Re: Re Old Folks
Yes it's called Medicare with a premium taken out of the SS check each month.
The last year I find complete actual costs state:
Medical service (Seniors) $451.6 billion.
Vendor Payments (Welfare) $330.7 billion.
Health research and training (552) $34.2 billion.
Welfare $502.3 billion.
So welfare and medicaid vendor payments = $833 billion.
Which is $381.4 billion more than what taking care of the old folks costs. Which the old folks pay 10% of their SS check towards.
These payments are what the Federal Government pays and does not include what the States pays.
You can dig deeper here if you like.
BTW "Federal welfare spending has grown by 32 percent over the past four years, fattened by President Obama’s stimulus spending and swelled by a growing number of Americans whose recession-depleted incomes now qualify them for public assistance, according to numbers released Thursday.
Federal spending on more than 80 low-income assistance programs reached $746 billion in 2011, and state spending on those programs brought the total to $1.03 trillion, according to figures from the Congressional Research Service and the Senate Budget Committee."
To add insult to the injury that working stiff's are asked to endure is the constant solicitations on TV and in the churches to help "Feed the Children" in America who are hungry.
Many, many of these hard workers do not have Health Care Insurance provided by a small business provider nor by themselves, while the System pays women to have u=illegitimate babies who are raised fatherless and oppose al authority in school and later in the streets.
These kids grow up to represent the criminal element whih fills the courts and the prisons, at a tremendous expense to the tax payers.
One day in jail cost $60.
A year costs $22,000.
Niow this is NOT to say we do NOT need a safety net for people who fall down and need help.
It is merely an indictment of the present liberal scheme to have provided such a system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by ICANT, posted 12-27-2012 2:37 AM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 12:00 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 165 of 316 (685910)
12-27-2012 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by vimesey
12-27-2012 4:37 AM


Re: Hubris
See Message 102, Message 106 and Message 108 on the Catholicism versus Protestantism thread.
Thanks for the info.
I hadn't posted on that thread for a while and did not notice the criticism of that Chart.
I did post there a few minutes ago, though.
You DO accept that the governments spend $1 Trillion dollars a year now, though, right???/
I did post the second graph which clearly shows the $600 Billion dolar cost of Welfare I specifically stated in each of the posts.
The almost totally invisible littlw decimal point in the other chart made the figure look like $6 Trillion dollars if so hard nose wanted to look for criticism and complain to the Government about sloppy work.
But the amount I stated should have helped a sensible person see that the decimal point was too small to read here.
The chart below here was posted right under that other chart you complain about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by vimesey, posted 12-27-2012 4:37 AM vimesey has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 166 of 316 (685912)
12-27-2012 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by New Cat's Eye
12-13-2012 1:33 PM


Re: Who is the greatest burden?
No doubt our system sucks.
I'm not convined that there are not additional (future) costs to an overly obese population other than that immediate 10% increase. Especially if people continue on getting fatter. Being fat now might cause you problems later that aren't immidiately realized in a direct cost increase today.
The rise in medical costs outstrips inflation because we all want the same eternal life the Eygptians willingly built their pyramids to attain.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-13-2012 1:33 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 178 of 316 (685952)
12-28-2012 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Panda
12-27-2012 10:22 PM


Reouble Hubris
The fact that there are threads where you continuously and repeatedly post discredited and unsupported claims hasn't got in the way of your discredited and unsupported opinions, has it.
There are also threads explaining why your claims are discredited and unsupported, but that hasn't got in the way of your discredited and unsupported opinions either.
1) I don't think so.
What there does seem to be is nit pikin' with little merit and a rather common dismissal of the Stats and Facts.
2) What I think we have on this site is a majority of people who arrived here with politically correct odras that they never analyzed.
Then in order to win the contest tat seems to be :I am smarted and more educated than you, they can not back down and admit they nought into ideas that are weak and thoughtless acceptance of the general Feelings which are expressed among their own sort.
3) I see te cowardice reluctance to admit they were wrong and change erroneous opinions.
They are reinforced by their own numbers of members who are all the same, hence they will assert lame accusations and claim their ideas win because they hold a democratic majority on their fallacies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Panda, posted 12-27-2012 10:22 PM Panda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Eli, posted 12-28-2012 11:05 AM kofh2u has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 179 of 316 (685954)
12-28-2012 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by crashfrog
12-28-2012 9:45 AM


Re: Body Composition
Assuming he's talking about real people, that is, pre-industrial cultures that actually exist - and, you know, he said or at least implied that he was not making this up, though that's been shown to be a lie - then yes, I can assign mortality rates to those people by assigning mortality rates to every pre-industrial culture that is known.
And I've presented a study that did exactly that. So, your point is refuted. It's inaccurate to say that I "made shit up." Now that you know that I didn't, if you say that I did again, it'll be a lie.
You are wasting your time repeating to these people on the other side.
They pretend to be other debating you and sitting in the seat of Moses where it is they who are so authoritatively aware of what males sense that they can just refuse to agree with you, then claim you lost in the discussion.
What one must hope to accomplish in these forums is to appeal to the lurking non-posting readers and visitors who come away with new points of view that were the consequence to these discussions.
They represent the "I am smarter than you" set which can not back down, because then, well, they would not be smarter than you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by crashfrog, posted 12-28-2012 9:45 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by crashfrog, posted 12-28-2012 10:30 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 182 of 316 (685965)
12-28-2012 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by onifre
12-27-2012 11:39 AM


Re: Body Composition
The longer you live, the more likely that you'll get cancer, for instance, and cancer has not ever been an inexpensive way to die.
That is linked to dietary issues as well, or rather the industrial food market that has poisoned the stuff we eat.
Of course, the Stats show that we either die of a heart Attack/cerebral Hemorrhage or Cancer by and large.
If rich Americans want to do away with all the things rich people enjoy but are not so healthy, they may not increase their life expectancy, but the boredom will make them feel they lived for Ages.
What I see is that 1/3 and ever closer to 1/2 of the families with children in America receive free drugs and medical services as part of their Welfare Benefits which is unsocialized people getting socialized medicine services.
Imagine every family having reverted to using marriage as the means for supporting a family, and then contributing ti the Medicaid/Medicare Program rather than draining out services.
That would be more like the working Socialized Medicines in Canada, Switzerland, and Germany.
By CNN's Jack Cafferty
More than 100 million people in the United States of America get welfare from the federal government. 100 million.
According to the Weekly Standard, Senate Republicans say that the federal government administers nearly "80 different overlapping federal means-tested welfare programs."
This figure of 100 million people does not include those who only receive Social Security or Medicare.
The most popular welfare programs are food stamps and Medicaid, with the number of recipients in both these programs skyrocketing in the last decade. Food stamp recipients alone jumped from 17 million in 2000 to 45 million in 2011.
And these 100 million people on welfare include citizens and non-citizens.
Where is the U.S. headed if more than 100 million people get welfare? – Cafferty File - CNN.com Blogs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by onifre, posted 12-27-2012 11:39 AM onifre has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3849 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 184 of 316 (685970)
12-28-2012 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by crashfrog
12-28-2012 10:30 AM


Re: Body Composition
That's more or less exactly right. The best you can do is post facts and good evidence, defend it without losing your temper, and watch as your opponents just completely lose their shit. Like Panda's doing, right now.
I agree 100%.
I have faith in idea ideal we call Truth, believing it will reign, even in spite of the evidence here, that it may not rise again from the ashes of debate.
I do believe that the Truth is what will be measured consequentially to policies that oppose it.
Sadly,at a great cost in that the case.
But it has been my belief that the Truth would at some point replace the lies and clouding of these other people because truth rings clear in the minds of men.
I have become a little doubtful of late, realizing that this hypothesis needs be amended to refer to sane men.
It appears to me that half the American population has been "bought" in one way or another by social programs which they are CRAZY about, and Truth may NOT have any affect upon them.
We see this madness in Greece right now, where the people don't seem to understand that when the Greeks say their nation is bankrupt, they really mean the people and the union workers who are broke.
They are trowing stones and rocks at the police in a demand for more of the same that ruined the country, while the politicians try to stay off revolution and possible their own deaths by begging for money from neighbors.
These people who demanded more than reality could grant them, do not see the Truth, and are ready to tear down their own society.
But we see them right here, too.
Like in Wisconsin,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by crashfrog, posted 12-28-2012 10:30 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024