I dunno, I guess I don't see how you can argue that the fact that a Presidential candidate formed a mob to assault a teenager for appearing to be gay
The word play is beautiful, but as per usual, it's total bullshit.
A presidential candidate did NOT form a mob, an 18 year old Romney did. It was also done 40 years ago when the normal opinion of gay people was unfavorable to say the least. So he wasn't a radical gay basher, he was a normal, opinionated male (or female since it doesn't really matter one way or the other, right?) acting in accordance with the social norm.
Granted, I get all my information of the 60's from Mad Men.
Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.
I'm with Romney on this one!
I'm with Bluejay on this one, you're making it out to be worse than it is.
Agreed. But then again it is Rahvin so it's par for the course with his usual ridiculous conclusions and exaggerated interpretations.
Seems like Romney, an 18 year old Romeny, wanted to cut his hair and make a point. Interpreted by today's standards it comes off as a hate crime. But if anything, it was the hatred of the Boy George look and not the sexual orientation of the kid. Although I wouldn't hold it against him if 40 years ago he didn't like gay people. He is a by-product of the culture as was everyone else. Most of us would probably dislike gay people back then too. I know when I was a kid in school I didn't like them either. I was raised that way being the son of a Cuban, and this was the 80's.
As a grown up I've of course changed my opinion. Mostly because I love girl-on-girl action.
choolyard bullying in those days was good for a trip to the principal's office, and maybe detention for a few afternoons.
It's also normal primate behavior, which is what we are after all. The bigger ones dominate the weaker ones. The only problem today is, the weaker ones invented the internet.
Bullying leads to Woody Allen, Bill Gates and iPhones. There is a reason for it. It's part of our growth.
But I didn't assault any of those playground weaklings.
Sure you did, you kept charging them, right?
On the other hand, Romney's background was apparently so replete with bullying that he cannot remember, let alone feel bad about a particular incident in which he himself participated.
Is that really such a big deal? I don't remember that incident, to me, is a better answer than trying to explain the emotional opinion he had when he was 18 years old and hopefully letting this theatrical mess aimed at distracting from real issues go away.
I see you are still saving the funny stuff for your paid gigs.
Well that's what you said, that they kept calling foul when you charged them.
Is it your position that all physical contact prohibited by the formal rules of a game should be considered assault? That when a basketball referee makes a charge/block call, that he is actually determining which player has assaulted the other. Because otherwise, your assertion is not worth considering.
What formal rules and referees? I thought you were talking about a pick up game at a playgroud where, like we all know, you DON'T CALL FOULS LIKE A BITCH. I thought you meant they upset you because in street ball you don't call fouls you just take the charge like a man. The weaklings called foul and the next play got charged harder.
I've seen dudes get hit hard in street ball by bigger guys driving in, elbows out, ready to break your nose if you stay in front of them.
Generally speaking, out of the countless thousands of collisions that I've seen on a basketball court, only a few of them include the mens re necessary to be legally considered assault and battery.
You needed to get out more.
Better in what way?
Doesn't allow for further delving into the subject and squashes the issue a lot faster in my opinion. Nonsense like what he did when he was 17 or 18 should not be a topic we need to discuss.
His denials simply are not credible and as a result allow Romney to be painted as both a bully and a liar.
When he was 18! Christ who didn't lie and bully a few weaker dudes when they were that age? Who gives a shit. The American political system is a joke because of issues like this.
Do you want to know how many women he tried to get drunk so he could fuck when he was in college too?
Seriously dude. Yet another men dig lesbians joke?
Great, but Mitt Romney isn't running to be the President of 40 years ago, he's running to be the President of 2013.
Yes...
And plenty of people 40 years ago never formed a mob to assault a kid
Once again more word play bullshit. Him and some friends tackled a dude and cut his hair. That's what happened.
In fact, the vast majority of people did not do that.
I once gathered a mob to pants someone.
And in particular, Barack Obama did not do that.
No, his current record as president is of greater offense.
A President who had, 40 years ago, formed a lynch mob to kill a black man...
Stop it...
I don't have any problem restricting the office to those whose sense of equality and social justice has been ahead of the curve.
That's fine. But realistically, our opinions at 18 can change over the years. So much so that you can champion a cause with even greater concern having once known the true nature of being opposed to it. It's called maturity, you should get some.
Maybe you were a bully as a teenager. You are free to give Romney a pass on his behavior then and now.
I'm more concerned with Romney belonging to a church that not so long ago denied black people the right to join.
What he did as an 18 year old with some friends hazing the odd kid is really bogus as a worry. No more of a concern than the amount of women he lied to to get in bed. To focus on this is petty.
So why does Romney feel the need to lie about a non-event.
He said he forgot about the event, why do you assume he's lying?
My issue is primarily his current refusal to acknowledge that the event even happened.
I get that. But like I said, if it is him saying "I forgot" just to squash the subject, since it was when he was 18, I can see past it.
It should never have been made an issue.
You are mistaken about exactly what abhorrent policy the LDS used to have towards blacks. But in any event, this thread isn't really about listing all of Romney's flaws.
Yeah I admit some ignorance on the subject of the LDS but it was omething to the effect of not allowing black members for reasons I assume are not so nice.
Right, and that's assault and battery with a deadly weapon.
Maybe in nerd court. Or it could just be some dudes cutting your hair in man the fuck up court.
what Romney did was incite a mob to commit assault and battery with a deadly weapon. It's just that simple.
Your fancy lawyer talk don't scare me.
There's no "safe" way to hold somebody down and cut their hair off with scissors; somebody kicks this way or bucks that way, and those scissors might have winded up in that kid's eye socket.
Dude you sound like a mom. Were you ever fucked with as a kid? I once got choked out by a dude in the park cuz he wanted to show everyone that the sleeper hold worked and I was the smallest one there. I'm not going to call that attempted murder.
Your two criteria for dismissing the event were that it happened 40 years ago, and that it represented popular attitudes towards minorities at the time.
Fair enough.
What's the evidence Romney's have changed? This seems to be, in fact, the only thing he's never changed his mind about.
Well, I don't know if you can say that just because he doesn't support gay marriage. My mom doesn't support gay marriage.
But I would think he would not cut some White House intern's hair with a group of friends these days just because they are dressed different.
And it's your contention that Romney has now become a champion of gay rights? What's your evidence for that?
No not at all. Just that an 18 year old can change to the point of being able to champion the very thing he once hated. Seemed like you were fixed on the opinion of an 18 year old not being able to change.
I don't understand someone who thinks it's cool, or whatever, no big deal, to get a mob to tackle a guy, hold him down, and wave a fairly dangerous sharp object around his face and eyes.
I didn't say it was cool or not a big deal, I'm saying it's not assault with a deadly weapon unless you're just being a punk about getting roughed up by some stronger dudes in a fucking PREP school. Please.
You were assaulted, too. Dudes in the park shouldn't just come up to you and choke you out. That's not something that it's ok for people to do, Oni!
Didn't say it was ok, I said it's not attemted murder.
The dudes are a metaphor for life and the choke is the unfair shit that happens to us. Lesson learned. Thanks tough hispanic kids at the park.
That does not appear to be an effective squashing technique; it looks like lying given that everyone else involved has no trouble remembering the event.
That's a very common thing to forget when many people remember. I don't know what's so surprising about that?
And it's politics too, so we can't be too sure everthing being presented is how it seems. It seems too petty to even worry about in any case.
The official LDS policy was to limit people with black ancestry from holding a number of important positions, and from participating in some important church ceremonies.
So it'd be ok for Mitt Romney to get a mob together to bully me, but it wouldn't be ok for me to use the law to fight back?
You'd be a real pussy in my opinion if you couldn't make the effort to stand up to some bullies, at a prep school mind you, and instead run to the authorities.
I'm not saying you aren't within your legal right to do it, but seriously, you should man up a bit and handle it.
The notion that the victims of bullies have to sit there and take it...
I'm far from saying you should take it. I'm saying fight back.
It's assault with a deadly weapon because it meets, in every respect, the characteristics of that class of crimes.
Yeah if you wanna be a giant pussy and yell out assualt in that incident, sure, it's assault. Legally assault. But assault can be me pushing you in the mall. Are you gonna run to the cops and yell out assault in that situation too?
Your argument seems to be that it's not technically an assault because it happened 40 years ago, or that the actors involved were all rich kids at prep school, or something. I'm not really clear on your legal reasoning, there.
Look, if I punch you in the face, it's assault. Legally assualt. Call the cops, I get arrested, you can press charges. OR... you can man up and hit me back. You make the call as to what type of man you want to be in life. The kind that runs to the authorities when a bully hits you or the type that stands up to them.
I was raised to do the latter, and I'm thankful for it.
But, yeah, there's your impulse - we couldn't possibly do something so unfair as to bully the 18-year-old son of a governor and his buddies for some prep school pranks, right?
What? No, I didn't even imply something like that. Your mob cuts my hair I return with a bat and brake your legs. Even-Steven.
That's my solution. That's why I call this petty and not worth the time to even discuss. It's not assualt, in my opinion, it's a group of dudes fucking with you. The way to stop that is to handle it like a man and fight back. Not yell out for the authorities like a punk.
I know that's not the popular opinion here, but where I'm from it's how you handle yourself. That's why I find the need for you to call this assualt a weak argument. I can't even imagine telling my dad that some dudes held me down and cut my hair and that I'd like to press charges. Get the fuck out of here man.
Do you have a problem with calling an incident in which several people held a man down an cut the man's hair against his will a real assault?
Because the way crashfrog is presenting it, sounds like media hyped bullshit. A MOB assaulted a young man and attacked him with a DEADLY weapon. Then you read the story and it was a couple of guys at a prep school that held someone down and cut their hair.
He's trying to make it out to be more than it is to make it seem like a worse offense than it actually was. It's pathetic.
In other words, it's okay with Oni to denigrate and humiliate victims of assault, because if they were real men they'd have totally kicked the asses of that big group of guys armed with sharp pointy objects.
No, but nice try.
I'm saying if you want to be a pussy and call it assault you are legally correct in doing so, but the reality is you got jumped by some dudes who ONLY cut your hair. As a man you should be able to handle that without turning to the authorities and pressing charges.
Let's turn it around a bit - let's say that a woman was assaulted by a pack of guys, and one of them used scissors to cut her hair.
Should she just "man the fuck up" and fight back?
Well she's not a man, is she?
But some women will man up, more so then I guess you and crash, and fuck someone up over that.
Would calling the cops just make her a "giant pussy?" If they specifically assaulted her because she was a woman, and cut her hair with the specific intent to humiliate and intimidate her for being a woman, would it be fair to call it a hate crime?
Depends on the woman I guess. But for a man, I say fight back. But again, it depends on the woman. Some are very able to handle themselves because they were taught to do so. But it would be much more understandable if a woman reacted that way. I guess...
She wouldn't call the cops though:
Cut her hair, see what happens.
Maybe in your next scenario it could be someone's grandma so you can really get that "victim" effect you're looking for. Women are much tougher thatn you think.
Check that, I saw a grandma get hit in the face and not go down on youtube. They couldn't even rob her.
Yes, you can repeat it all you want, it will not change that I agree.
One of the men was in fact armed with scissors, which can often be classified as deadly weapons.
So can a pen, have you seen Jason Bourne handle a pen? Dude's awesome with it.
Intent to use a weapon for lethal force is not at all required for an assault...
Dude save the bullshit lawyer talk for the classroom. We're talking about some guys holding another guy down and cutting his hair. In my world that is NOT assault. I get that in YOUR world it is.
Exactly how does this event not describe a group of men armed with a deadly weapon assaulting another man because they perceived him to have a "gay hairstyle?"
Because you're exaggerating the case to make it seem much more than it is using legal terms and courtroom drama. It's a prep school prank on a gay kid.
Gay people can fight back too, I seen it.
You're so obsessed about what a "pussy" you think the victim was
No, I'm obsessed with what a pussy YOU guys are making him out to be. He can handle himself without you guys bringing all this nerdy bullshit about assault and deadly weapons into it.
Was anybody raised to fight back and stand up to bullies around here? Christ...
Stop it...
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