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Author Topic:   Romney the Bully
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 264 (661863)
05-10-2012 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 5:50 PM


Hi Mr Jack
Over forty years ago, when he was a child.
It's fucking bullshit to bring it up now.
Do you really think he has changed?
Do you think behavior in those years do not signify deeply held biases?
Of course Schrubbia was a bully too ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 5:50 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:16 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 18 of 264 (661871)
05-10-2012 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
05-10-2012 6:05 PM


the pathology of bullying?
Hi Jar
The character of of kid is not relevant when looking at the adult.
He was old enough to drive a car and make adult decisions.
The child that tortures cats and dogs is exhibiting behavior that is not relevant when they become a sociopathic murderer?
Formative behavior patterns tend to mold the person.
Sociopath Warning Signs | Healthfully
quote:
Childhood Signs of Sociopath
A sociopath exhibits dysfunctional behavior in regards to others. He frequently violates the law, lies, becomes violent and may abuse alcohol or drugs. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition (DSM-IV), a person diagnosed as a sociopath, or antisocial personality disorder as it also is called, will have had a diagnosis of conduct disorder before the age of 15.
The profile of an early sociopath always includes some form of violence. This usually is seen as involvement in physical fights and using weapons such as bats, broken bottles and knives. Cruelty to animals is another common feature. A child may harm or even kill an animal and show little to no remorse for his actions. Destruction to property, such as fire setting, often is observed.
Page not found | Sandra Rose
quote:
Are you raising a sociopath?
In a story that made national headlines last week, Anthony Tyrone Terrell Jr., 17, gunned down his mother, a Gwinnett County sheriff’s deputy, and his two younger sisters, one of whom, Jelani, 4, was the daughter of rap star Juvenile.
Anthony Tyrone Terrell Jr. is most likely a sociopath — a bad seed born with no conscience or empathy for others.
Experts say even in a loving home environment, a sociopath can grow up to kill his entire family, then grab a basketball and go shoot hoops with friends as if nothing happened.
Those are the first two google hits on sociopath childhood
Personally I think bullying is sociopathic behavior that cannot just be brushed away because it was long ago.
Also see waking you up - psychopathic bullying | psychopaths who bully | murder by suicide | puzzling people
quote:
... The fact is that psychopaths adore themselves, period. What is being classified as self-loathing is in reality more akin to resentment and jealousy. They do not feel inferior to other people who enjoy the relationships, social life, careers and material goods which the psychopath covets - they just want to take these things away from the victims for the sake of it. A sick game of one-upmanship which can destroy another person’s life for a brief rush of energy in the psychopath.
This resentment is most commonly seen when psychopaths bully other adults, having first developed their craft as children. They begin to realise the value of bullying while still in school - however, they will continue to do this for the rest of their lives as bullying pays off for the psychopath on many levels towards their relationship, social and employment ambitions. ...
I think it says a lot about how Mitt does business ... who admits that he likes to fire people ...
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : added
Edited by RAZD, : qsoute

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 6:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 6:37 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 23 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:42 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 26 by Rahvin, posted 05-10-2012 6:53 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 24 of 264 (661881)
05-10-2012 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:16 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Mr Jack
Do I think he has changed? No, I don't. I think Romney was scum then and scum now.
And his behavior? or does he still bully?
However, I think people can change, and in order for people to be allowed to change we have to assume they can and be willing to let the past rest. I also know that a great many people did shitty things in high school.
They also have to be shown that they need to change.
Apparently he was not even reprimanded or ostracized in any way for his behavior, rather he had a bunch of cohorts that helped, giving him reinforcement and reason to think it was proper behavior.
Forty years, RAZD, it's a very long time to still be paying for one's mistakes.
You are assuming that bully behavior stopped at 18, an age old enough to be drafted ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:16 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:47 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 34 of 264 (661907)
05-10-2012 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:47 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Mr Jack
I'm saying that if you want to use the past against him you need to dig up incidents from when he was not a child.
And I could say that you need to provide evidence that he had reformed, that he changed.
Personally I think the onus is on Romney to show that he has reformed, that there was a turning point that he can point to where he realized that the behavior was wrong.
I don't see that with his response to this issue.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:47 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 9:34 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 37 by Taz, posted 05-10-2012 9:37 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 264 (661912)
05-10-2012 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Rahvin
05-10-2012 6:53 PM


Re: the pathology of bullying?
Hi Rahvin,
The vast majority of childhood bullies are not, in fact sociopaths. Bullying is not itself a "sociopathic behavior." It's morally reprehensible, ...
psy•cho•path
noun
a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.
Can you show me a bully that has empathy for their victims, that thinks beating people is moral or socially acceptable behavior?
Yes it may be possible for mild cases to learn that the behavior is wrong, but they need to be put in a situation where they need to learn to alter their behavior. No psychological change can occur without a perceived need to change.
And there appears to be a higher number of psychopaths in the top economic positions than there are in the general public:
Are Rich People More Psychopathic? - Big Think
quote:
As part of a very public resignation, a former senior investor at Goldman Sachs has remarked on the company's poisonous corporate culture which encourages investors to cheat their clients. Might that kind of unethical behavior be more common among the rich and powerful? According to a 2010 study of 203 corporate executives, psychopathic behavior (which includes being manipulative, deceitful and unempathetic) was five times more common among the executives than in the general population.
5 times more common???
Forbidden
quote:
Both the financial elite and their servants who maintain this system, appear to exhibit behavior that is consistent with symptoms associated with a medical disorder known as psychopathy.(*) Psychopaths, also called sociopaths, are categorized as those who exhibit superficial charm and intelligence, and are absent of delusions or nervousness. ...
Do you think that a person who claimed to like firing people has empathy for them?
A story of childhood bullying some 40 years past would not be sufficient to cause me to not vote for a man...but his continued stance against equality for homosexuals is, and this story acts as nothing more than additional confirmation that Romney's homophobia likely runs very, very deep.
Personally I think that is the tip of the iceberg of his behavior regarding other people, it just happens to be the most visible at this time, and it certainly does not appear that he has ever had any kind of epiphany in this regard to think his behavior was ever wrong.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : ..

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Rahvin, posted 05-10-2012 6:53 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 39 of 264 (661920)
05-10-2012 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Taz
05-10-2012 9:37 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Taz,
How old are you? I'm pretty sure you're not the same person you were 50 years ago.
1965 was my senior year at an exclusive high school in Michigan -- but one where admission was based on intelligence rather than money.
As a youth I was a boy scout, and as an adult I've been a scoutmaster.
My politics were radical liberal, progressive before it was called progressive, as they are now.
Yes, I've learned a lot of information since then, but my behavior towards other people is not significantly different.
Just read your last post. I see your point... I'll think about it.
And I also look at the way he responded to the allegations, and how that fits the pattern of the pathology ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Taz, posted 05-10-2012 9:37 PM Taz has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 41 of 264 (661924)
05-10-2012 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coyote
05-10-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Coyote,
Is this the correct place to bring up Obama's admitted high school drug abuse?
In 1965 well over half of the students in my school smoked pot, myself included. I also know of parents that smoked pot. Curiously, I do not consider pot smoking to be abuse when the effects are less addiction than cigarettes and the high is no different from alcohol, tending to be less violent if anything.
I do not see that smoking pot made a person harm another person, nor that it harmed me in any way, and I am still in favor of legalizing pot.
But I can count the number of bullies in my class with one finger. And I know that he harmed other people. Curiously, I am not in favor of legalizing bullying.
Are they really comparable behavior?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 9:34 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:44 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 44 of 264 (661927)
05-10-2012 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Jack
05-10-2012 6:42 PM


Re: the pathology of bullying?
Hi Mr Jack
Loads of people are involved in bullying. ...
So that makes it okay ... ?
You, RAZD, have engaged in behaviour here - on EvCForum - that could be described as bullying. ...
If you stretch the definition perhaps, and I could ask you for an example ...
But not a physical attack that defaced anyone or altered the way a person looked, an attack that left lasting psychological scars decades later.
This was not a high school prank, it was viscous and intentional.
It's bad behaviour, but nearly everyone has engaged in it at one time or another.
Your definition must be different from mine.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Jack, posted 05-10-2012 6:42 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(6)
Message 47 of 264 (661931)
05-10-2012 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Coyote
05-10-2012 10:44 PM


denial is not admitting you are wrong
Hi Coyote,
According to Obama's book, it was not just pot.
So he freely admitted it of his own accord, volunteered the information before running for president.
I am trying to point out to you your comment about later acknowledging the incorrectness of that behavior. I see your comment as indicative of a double standard.
And Mitt has YET to admit to improper behavior -- he first denied it, then dismissed it as a "prank" and continues to equivocate, adjusting his story as he goes (like he does on all his positions ... ).
Did Obama intentionally hurt someone? Mitt did.
Do I see a double standard? Yes, that you claim that these are comparable incidents.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 10:44 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 11:31 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 48 of 264 (661932)
05-10-2012 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Jon
05-10-2012 11:06 PM


Re: Change is possible
Hi Jon,
Forty years is a long time to 'still be paying for one's mistakes'?
But he isn't - he hasn't had to do any "paying" yet.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Jon, posted 05-10-2012 11:06 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 59 of 264 (661956)
05-11-2012 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Coyote
05-10-2012 11:31 PM


Re: denial is not admitting you are wrong
Hi Coyote,
Yes, I see a double standard there.
If find it curious that you do not see a distinct difference between a person who freely admits to a certain behavior, without pressure ...
... and a person who first denies, then dismisses as a prank which he doesn't remember, after being exposed by several witnesses ...
... between a person who acknowledges bad behavior and that he has changed (heck he even gave up cigarettes eh) ...
... and someone who ... I have said should show that he has changed behavior.
Message 34 me: Personally I think the onus is on Romney to show that he has reformed, that there was a turning point that he can point to where he realized that the behavior was wrong.
Curiously, you pointed out that Obama did this in his book, but have not shown that Romney has even begun to discuss this with the seriousness that it should require, especially today when bullying is beginning to see much long needed attention.
Yes your standard is doubled.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Coyote, posted 05-10-2012 11:31 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by subbie, posted 05-11-2012 10:12 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 71 of 264 (662136)
05-12-2012 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Blue Jay
05-11-2012 11:13 PM


Re: denial is not admitting you are wrong
Hi Blue Jay
Honestly, tacking on "with a deadly weapon" kind of comes off as an attempt at sensationalism. What he did was bad enough already: there's no need to try to make it sound like attempted murder or something.
If he had used a knife to cut the hair would it be different? Remember that intimidation is a part of bullying.
But I agree that murder was not part of the intent -- injury was, whether physical or mental is irrelevant.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Blue Jay, posted 05-11-2012 11:13 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
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