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Author Topic:   Bacterial flagellum
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 59 (109230)
05-19-2004 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by riVeRraT
05-19-2004 8:40 AM


Also the tail is not really connected, because it is spinning. Is there anything else in nature that has a part of itself not connected?
I think you're mistaken about that. The flagellum doesn't spin like the rotor of a motor. It whips about (hence the name "flagellum", from the latin for "whip") but doesn't actually rotate. It's more like a wisking action.
It's not really like an electric motor. It's more like a whipping hair than anything else, as far as I know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by riVeRraT, posted 05-19-2004 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 05-20-2004 7:00 AM crashfrog has replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 59 (109402)
05-20-2004 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
05-20-2004 7:00 AM


I believe it does indeed spin, at 20,000 to 30,000 rpms.
You believe wrong, according to my wife's cell-molec textbook (World of the Cell 4th Edition, Becker, Kliensmith, and Hardin). Bacterial flagella beat back and forth. They don't rotate in place like the shaft of an electric motor.
Nothing in nature rotates freely, not even flagella.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 59 (109426)
05-20-2004 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Sylas
05-20-2004 9:47 AM


Check the book again; if that is really what it says, then it is wrong.
I'm looking right at it; it has pictures and stuff, and it's pretty clear.
Maybe we're miscommunicating or something. It seems to me that the Rat is saying that the bacterial flagellum free rotates within its socket, like the shaft of a motor, around the long axis of the flagellum.
The textbook says that it beats back and forth, or whips around in a circular motion, but doesn't actually spin. The flagellum whips around like if you were to grab a garden hose in one hand and move your hand up and down and left and right, in a circle - the hose whips around, kind of in a helix, but doesn't actually spin freely of your hand.
Like I said, the textbook is pretty clear about that. I don't think I'm misunderstanding it. From what I'm reading, bacterial flagella don't rotate in a socket like the shaft of a motor, they whip around like whips.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 43 of 59 (109479)
05-20-2004 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Sylas
05-20-2004 1:36 PM


It does rotate in its socket; no question.
So, what exactly propels it? What's the mechanism? Oh, wait, never mind, I read further in the thread.
Moreover, why doesn't it just spin the bacterium? Or does it, and that's why it's not all that efficient?
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 05-20-2004 01:52 PM

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 Message 46 by Wounded King, posted 05-21-2004 3:45 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 47 of 59 (109607)
05-21-2004 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Wounded King
05-21-2004 3:45 AM


Wild stuff. Well, never let it be said I won't admit it when I'm wrong - I was wrong about the bacterial flagellum. Clearly I misunderstood The World of the Cell; probably it was only referring to the eukaryotic flagellum.
Neat stuff, though. I don't even begin to understand it, though.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 53 of 59 (109642)
05-21-2004 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by riVeRraT
05-21-2004 8:18 AM


Is it a fact that they can sense light?
It's not too hard to concieve of a metabolic pathway in a bacterium that would supply more or less energy to the flagellum based on the intensity of light at another part of the bacterium. Light can catalyze chemical reactions.

This message is a reply to:
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