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Author Topic:   Bacterial flagellum
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 36 of 59 (109423)
05-20-2004 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
05-20-2004 7:17 AM


crashfrog writes:
You believe wrong, according to my wife's cell-molec textbook (World of the Cell 4th Edition, Becker, Kliensmith, and Hardin). Bacterial flagella beat back and forth. They don't rotate in place like the shaft of an electric motor.
Nothing in nature rotates freely, not even flagella.
Check the book again; if that is really what it says, then it is wrong. There are several different kinds of flagella in nature. The three major divisions are bacterial, archaeal (another sort-of bacteria) and eukaryotic (not bacteria, but cells with a nucleus).
It is the eucaryotic flagella that beat; but both forms of bacterial flagella do indeed truly rotate.
More information is available from wikipedia, and is also available in a number of discussions of flagella on-line.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2004 7:17 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2004 10:05 AM Sylas has not replied

  
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 41 of 59 (109468)
05-20-2004 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Darwin's Terrier
05-20-2004 10:29 AM


Darwin's Terrier writes:
This site, I thought, confirmed it:
quote:
Flagella can be thought of as little semi-rigid whips that are free at one end and attached to a cell at the other. [...] The hook and basal body of the flagella attach it to the cell.
... but goes on to say
quote:
The flagellum is a rigid structure and rotates like a propeller. Rings in the basal body rotate relative to each other causing the flagella to turn.
[...]
So now I'm even more confused. It's clear that it acts like a whip in its motion, but does it also rotate within its ‘socket’ too?
Yes. It does rotate in its socket; no question. The rapid rotation of a long thread like object does cause it to whip about, especially in such small structures. The whipping effect induced by the rotation is what allows it to propell the bacterium.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Darwin's Terrier, posted 05-20-2004 10:29 AM Darwin's Terrier has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2004 2:51 PM Sylas has replied

  
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 44 of 59 (109507)
05-20-2004 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by crashfrog
05-20-2004 2:51 PM


My understanding is that it does spin the bacterium. I don't know that I'd call the motor "inefficient", however.
The way in which direction is apparently achieved is inefficient, however. (Though I'd say it is remarkable efficiency to pack an effective motion system into such a tiny package!)
My understanding is that bacteria usually spin for a short time, moving in a mostly straight line at signficant speeds. Then they stop, and have a short "tumble". Then they move off again, in a different completely random direction.
So how do they get direction? Interestingly, it is by a kind of analog to selection and variation! Suppose, for example, that a bacterium tends to move towards a light source. The way this is acheived is by having the length of time of the straight line movement be related to the light intensity. In a dark place, they tend to move in straight lines for a longer time before entering the tumble mode. This increases the probability that they will move away from the dark.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2004 2:51 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Sylas
Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 45 of 59 (109508)
05-20-2004 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by crashfrog
05-20-2004 2:51 PM


( Duplicate post bug; apparently caused when I refreshed the response screen which had failed to load properly. }
This message has been edited by Sylas, 05-20-2004 05:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by crashfrog, posted 05-20-2004 2:51 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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