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Author Topic:   Points on abortion and the crutch of supporters
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 296 of 440 (110524)
05-25-2004 10:30 PM


i have two reasons i've been considering for the legalization of unrestricted abortion. read this knowing that i probably would not seek an abortion.
1.
assuming the law of the land is abortion only when ppregnancy endangers the permanent physical health of the mother.
there are many more factors to life than physical health in america. i will discuss this in parable form.
julie becomes pregnant because the condom she and her boyfriend were using broke and her birth control pills were only 99% effective and she was that unlucky 1%. julie's boyfriend, bill works full time but hardly makes enough to support himself. julie is a full time student who works part time to pay for school and hardly makes ends meet herself. neither can afford a child, neither can afford the medical expences of a pregnancy (for you adoption instead people... pregnancy is VERY expensive.). the pregnancy does not endanger julie's health, but by bringing her baby to term, she may not be able to continue her education and will thus be forced into a life of dead end jobs (until she rids herself of the child by adoption). further, she might lose her job if she has to take a maternity leave.
by requiring risk of physical harm, these laws proclaim that the only purpose in a woman's life is to bring children into the world. based on anthropological and biological evidence (jared diamond - the third chimpanzee for instance), human sex is not for the sole purpose of procreation. therefore these laws lewssen the sexual rights of women as compared to men. further, i absolutely refuse to believe that my only purpose is to pop out puppies.
2.
assuming the same laws.
this requires, upon offering of objection, a woman's medical history and status to be opened to public scrutiny. this is a direct affront to privacy rights. this means that women are inherently less deserving of medical privacy than men simply because they are the sex which bears young. that is unconstitutional.
the biggest thing to remember is that the 'right to life' is a mostly religious concept. not all people are religious and not all people hold this view. as abortion laws infringe on the rights of women, and there is no guarantee that that child will safely reach term anyways (only 15% of conceptions result in live births), there is no reason to force religious-based beliefs on people for whom liberty is guaranteed. liberty and justice for all... not just those liberties that the religious reicht thinks are acceptable.
__________
on the texas law.
it is unconstitutional. at least in part.
A doctor must tell the woman that benefits may be available ...
and
'the doctor shall give her a copy [of abortion information] at least 24 hours before the abortion is scheduled'
and
Government and private agencies can counsel the woman in preventing pregnancy
these are informed consent clauses. this type of law has been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court in that they support outdated ideas that women are less able to make decisions than men... this ties into the outlawing of women being required to receive the father's consent (or rather, their husband's) before they can have an abortion (several precedents).
Akron v. Akron Center For Reproductive Health 462 U.S. 416 (1983)
there are others (i think...) but i can't find them and i'm too lazy to keep looking.
Planned Parenthood v. Casey 505 U.S. 833 (1992) broke precedence and legalized informed consent, but based on the fact that it is considered to have been affected by shifting politics, it is generally ignored.
the third of those also draws in the precedence that pro-life groups must keep a distance from women seeking abortions.
Hill v. Colorado 530 U.S. 703 (2000)
Schenck v. Pro-Choice Network of Western New York 519 U.S. 357 (1997)
The father is required to help support the child whether or not he has offered to pay for an abortion.
this seems like an extension of informing the mother... another attempt to dissuade her choice. there is much precedence for child support though sometimes it seems that it is not right (vindictive woman seeking to get lots of money from some rich guy) but then that is hard to prove.
sorry for the novel.

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 298 of 440 (115893)
06-16-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Macavity
03-13-2004 12:56 AM


Re: Points on abortion and the crutch of supporters
only about 15% of conceptions result in live births, actually.

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 Message 3 by Macavity, posted 03-13-2004 12:56 AM Macavity has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 417 of 440 (143492)
09-20-2004 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
03-12-2004 11:49 PM


go adopt. go adopt a good old american child. particularly an unwanted one. not a cute little baby whose mommy didn't want it, but an abused child or one with a disability. a truly unwanted child. one that the parents have just as well aborted in their hearts.
once you and every other pro-"life"er have done the same, then i will respect your opinions. until then, stop trying to run other people's lives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 03-12-2004 11:49 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Trump won, posted 09-29-2004 8:06 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 423 of 440 (145884)
09-30-2004 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by Trump won
09-29-2004 8:06 PM


i don't agree with aborting disabled babies. but that's why we have a constitution. i am free from what you think i should do and people are free from what i think they should do.
i have a fine motor disability. i could never be a surgeon. what if my parents had wanted their kid to have "every oportunity"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Trump won, posted 09-29-2004 8:06 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Trump won, posted 09-30-2004 7:43 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

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