What would your doctor say?

Whoops. Wrong topic.

That's a great question Brian. As a Christian, I would have to ask the same kinds of questions about anyone that proclaims that they speak with God. Even as a Christian, I would be leery if someone claimed to talk with God. The reason being that so many of the claimants do suffer from mental disease and exhibit delusions of grandeur.If anyone claimed to have conversations with God, I'd first ask if their conversation was audible. I would then ask what the conversation entailed. If the "calling" entailed anything contrary to Scripture, then the claimant is either, A. making it up to get attention, B. Mentally disturbed and are hearing auditory voices from either a demonic source or that it stems from some sort of malady, or C. this person has been bestowed a gift that effects only a privaleged few in human history.But even C has problems because the Word says that all "new" revelation comes through dreams in the last days or it comes through a soft, still voice in the mind.I think in order to discern whether someone actually speaks with God, you have to take quite a few variables into consideration. My own conversations with God comes through a soft, still voice. It is by no means a booming voice of the arch angel, nor can it be verified by empiricism. Anyone claiming that I was simply hearing my own voice or that I heard what I wanted to hear, they'd have a good argument against me. But the very nature of God requires so very much on the personal line that it might be hard to distinguish those who merely wish for it to be real from those who have experienced an actual conversation.Jesus said that we would know people by their fruits. This has served me in so many ways. Its such a true statement. And even if someone didn't have any sort of relgious affinities can take that onboard. I can always tell who is close to God and who has never met Him in a relatively short amount of time just by their actions and personalities. Anyone imbued by the Spirit has a certain quality that doesn't have a price tag attached to it and it isn't revealed with a giant, flashing neon sign. Its a simple, quiet understanding.That's what I can bring to the table with my two cents. I think it was a great question and I hope that my two cents have some appreciable value to them.

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“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.” -1st Peter 3:15

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You, for example, have faith in being "responsible," if I interpret your comments correctly.

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Not Faith. Trust.Statistically, if I go to the doctor regularly, chances are that I will catch problems, should they arise, early and be able to have them taken care of in a way that will not hinder my life and will preserve my health and longevity.I don't like going to the doctor at all. But I like being healthy, feeling great every day, and I want to keep doing so for as long as possible.I also have family. I know they want me to live a long and healthy life, so I also go because of them.

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Well, I've always been irresponsible. No point in changing now!

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Why not?

I will move this to a more relevant thread.

all religionssee "The Psychology of Religion"
Political and Social Science A rather bizarre article\rant btw.Enjoy.

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Join the effort to unravel {AIDSHIV} with Team EvC! (click)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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I've talked to a lot of people, believers and unbeleivers, with similar experiences. I think it is God letting them know, or a gift within their own spirit that comes from God, that this is the one.It's something I like to talk about because it illustrates that truth is not necessarily obtained via the scientific method or even rational logic. Sometimes, we are illuminated whether by God, intuition or own giftings from God, and these illuminations are usually right on the money. It takes a lot of time to develop a discernment to know the difference between spiritual illumination and mere imagination, and most may not make that effort, but it's real nonetheless.Congrats, btw, on staying married so long.

I suspect she and most other Christians recognize there are the occasional extraordinary spiritual experiences and they can include something like hearing an audible voice as Paul seemed to, but for the most part, and even in the case with men and women that have such spiritual experiences, they don't hear God talking with them in that manner day in and day out.Even Jesus spent very long hours in prayer and fasting. If He could have simply been talking to God as we would talk and listen to another human being, at each moment, it is unlikely such devotion would have been called for.On the other hand, I think Faith is right that demons do sometimes speak in voices. God, on the other hand, speaks in a multitude of ways, and if you hear an audible voice, it's not likely you will continue to have Him communicate what He wants to say in that manner. It's just not His way.

Faith, you know I generally agree with you, but I don't think we can say God would never speak in an audible voice. I think we can say, even for Paul, that such instances are not the norm, not even in the life for someone where that happened, and that not even in the life of Jesus it seems, though the voice did come from heaven on the day he was baptized.

I don't think I exaggerated. I could be wrong but I meant what I said. I wasn't thinking of the apostles, or Paul's experience on the Damascus road. Those things I believe were special doings of God for the sake of the early spreading of the gospel, but once it spread He has no reason to do dramatic things, and He speaks to us individually now in quieter ways, often indirect ways, mostly about things to do with our own walk.I've often found that what people attribute to God is the clue to whether or not it was God doing the speaking or not. Sometimes you have to listen quite a bit before it becomes clear. I was just looking through a book of "mystical" writings last night and found some of Teresa of Avila, someone I've always liked a lot though I know there are problems with her theology. The part I read was about how her superiors told her to "snap her fingers at" the visions she was getting, because they must have been from the devil, and she couldn't bring herself to believe that or do that for fear of offending God. But as she goes on she reveals that in one vision "the Lord told me that" Peter and Paul wouldn't allow her to be deceived. That gives away the falseness of the whole thing right there, but she being Catholic, raised in veneration of the saints, wasn't alerted by that to the true meaning of the source of it.Edited by Faith, : grammatical problems

Yes, I shouldn't say never. God may decide to do it again for reasons of his own. But I wasn't thinking of the Biblical context, and I do think that those were special events to usher in the New Covenant and get it out to the world.

How can you say that? Based on what? This is one of the things that I find baffling about many Christians on the more fundamentalist side of the spectrum. They will say they believe everything in the Bible and then turn around and say, "But god doesn't work that way anymore." I can see OT and NT differences, etc. And pre and post resurrection/Assencion. Maybe even pre and post Pentecost. But there is no basis in scripture for saying that the events similar to what happened in Acts do not occur today. It is just asserted and that is that. Frankly it seems to be a convenient way of making a literal reading of the Bible seem more rational in today's world.

At least on my part it's more like a worry that such experiences will proliferate among believers though they are from the wrong source. This in fact I believe has happened in the charismatic movement. That is why I left it. Many unusual phenomena happen in that context, but when you track it down carefully and really think and pray about it, there is usually false teaching involved, or utterly unholy behavior, being rationalized away because people are so caught up in the excitement of the supposed "move of the Spirit."I agree that scripture is not at all clear that we can't expect such phenomena any more, but the context of the New Testament is the spreading of the gospel and God's ratification of it all as authentic through signs and wonders. Based on that understanding of it, I would also allow that when the gospel is taken to remote parts of the world where people haven't heard of it and are deeply mired in supernatural rites of their own, shamanism and the like, God may see fit to send some signs and wonders there too.But in a culture like ours where the gospel is familiar to the point of numbness to it, it would make sense that we are simply to follow His directives and signs and wonders have no real purpose. I COULD be wrong about this but the problem is that I KNOW too many signs and wonders are not from God these days. I recognize the false teaching and the fleshly behavior.Edited by Faith, : grammar

Only if one equates religiocity and all of its trappings with "the Gospel".

Soon after becoming a Christian I took a trip from work direct to my mothers about 40 miles away. Being a hot day and a fairly safe route, I slipped my motorcycle gloves under my seat strap and set off. That evening, I headed for home and it being still very warm, I set off without considering wearing them. At home, 20 miles away, I went to retrieve... gone! "Shoot! $100 is bad enough - but they fit like old shoes. Grrr". On the spur of the moment, I decided to head back in my mothers direction to find them. It was dark by now.I kept an eye on the other side of the road but soon found that the combination of sections of unlit country road, poor bike headlights and oncoming traffic - as well as the need to keep an eye on where I was going - meant I was missing out on large tranches of road. My hopes faded with the miles.Then the doubt: "The verge on the other side is completely in darkness, they could well have slid off the road into it and I'll never see them from here. I'll have to drive down to mams and have a better look on the way back...". 10 miles in, the thought struck me: "I'm not even sure they were there when I left mams - for all I know they fell off in the 40 miles down to her place! Craaaap.Ping!"Actually its more likely they fell off sooner rather than later"The emptying vessel of hope ran dry: "Sure, you can pick up a new set on the way into work tomorrow. So what on earth are you doing out here in the pitch black at this time of night, looking for a black pair of gloves on 60 miles of black tarmac road. You really are an impetuous plonker at times Ian!!" (wait for it..)The thoughts transferred unconciously to my throttle hand and I found myself rolling to a halt just before a country village. Defeated.Just as I began to crank over to head back, a voice in my head said "Don't stop. Go on" Now my own voice in my head doesn't speak with an accent. And neither did this voice - so there was nothing to discern it from my own thoughts in that way. But it made me sit up and take notice. I was mildy startled. The best I can say is that it was just very definitive. Not a command like you might get in the army. But it was quietly authoritative. Like a stop sign.I rode on. The village had some street lighting and as I rode out through the other side of it, there, 100 metres further up lay my gloves. 2 little black lumps in the middle of my side of the road. Had I not seen them I would have run over them. But I couldn't miss them: 2 meters apart from each other and sat right under a streetlight. Just to be certain, from 100 metres out, my headlights picked up on a patch of relective material which turned out to be sewn into the cuff - making the recognition immediate."Thank you Lord" I said as I stooped over to retrieve them."That's alright son - my pleasure" he replied(A true story - bar for the last sentence)
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Hmmm.....I never read of her. There is a book that you might enjoy on the current resurgence of Christianity in the world. it's called The MegaShift. Part of it's argument deals with the trend towards small groups, but there's a lot in the book to recommend.I would say there are more miracles, more people getting saved and signs and wonders that at any other time in history, right now. We are missing out a little here in America because of unbelief, but the glory of the latter house will exceed that of the former, and it's happening now.