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Author Topic:   What would your doctor say?
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 18 of 204 (335786)
07-27-2006 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
07-27-2006 2:24 PM


It may (or may not) involve clear impressions of God's will, but it never involves hearing voices. (Demons may do that, however).
Really? Than what was going on here? Demons?
Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 2:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 4:49 PM deerbreh has replied
 Message 37 by randman, posted 07-27-2006 7:46 PM deerbreh has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 19 of 204 (335798)
07-27-2006 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by randman
07-27-2006 1:32 PM


Re: praying and talking with God
Did I hear a voice say, Yes, this is the girl you are going to marry?
No. But the effect was the same. I felt I knew she was the right one, and that, yes, God had "told" me that, but there was no voice or anything.
I had a somewhat similar experience that was quite startling at the time. I was at college away from home and a steady girlfriend that I was convinced I would marry someday and was writing to religiously, a couple times a week. About a month into my sophomore year I was introduced to a woman at a function. As soon as I laid eyes on her the thought went through my mind, "This is the woman you are going to marry." Now I would not say it was a "voice" but it was very clear and it definitely came out of the blue because I immediately discounted it with the thought, "That is ridiculous, I am going to marry Linda" There was no strong physical attraction that I remember at the time, though she was attractive enough. Well guess what, Linda and I parted ways when I was home for Thanksgiving. About 6 months later the woman and I started dating and within 2 years we were married (still at it, coming up on our 34th anniversary). Just like that. I never said anything to her about it until after the wedding because frankly I was a little freaked out by the whole thing. I have never been of the mind that there is "one right person" for everyone but I have to say that this experience does give me pause. Do I think it was the voice of God? No I don't, but then I am not completely sure about that either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by randman, posted 07-27-2006 1:32 PM randman has replied

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 41 of 204 (335863)
07-27-2006 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
07-27-2006 4:49 PM


On what basis do you say that? Scripture?
Excuse me, in that case it involved hearing a voice, but that level of communication no longer happens.
How can you say that? Based on what? This is one of the things that I find baffling about many Christians on the more fundamentalist side of the spectrum. They will say they believe everything in the Bible and then turn around and say, "But god doesn't work that way anymore." I can see OT and NT differences, etc. And pre and post resurrection/Assencion. Maybe even pre and post Pentecost. But there is no basis in scripture for saying that the events similar to what happened in Acts do not occur today. It is just asserted and that is that. Frankly it seems to be a convenient way of making a literal reading of the Bible seem more rational in today's world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 4:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 8:20 PM deerbreh has replied
 Message 48 by randman, posted 07-28-2006 12:28 AM deerbreh has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 43 of 204 (335879)
07-27-2006 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
07-27-2006 8:20 PM


Re: On what basis do you say that? Scripture?
But in a culture like ours where the gospel is familiar to the point of numbness to it,...
Only if one equates religiocity and all of its trappings with "the Gospel".

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 Message 42 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 8:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 138 of 204 (337245)
08-01-2006 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
08-01-2006 11:39 AM


Re: touchy
An agnostic is an athiest for all practical purposes.
It must be great to know what everyone else is thinking. Makes all of that conversation and debate completely unnecessary. Not to mention how much simpler the world is when everyone is in their neat little boxes - Christians/atheists, Creationists/Darwinists, Republicans/Democrats, Conservatives/Liberals. Good people/evil people, etc.
Edited by deerbreh, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 08-01-2006 11:39 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by iano, posted 08-01-2006 8:28 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 146 of 204 (337315)
08-01-2006 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by iano
08-01-2006 8:28 PM


Or you don't know what you don't know.
Now if that is the case then it there isn't as much diversity as you might think. Islam, Atheism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Agnosticism. All the same side of the very same coin. All sharing the same features in essence: denial of God as is revealed
You really don't know what you are talking about. It is hard to know where to begin with someone who would lump all of these different religions and philosophies together as one and the same. And you really do not understand agnostism at all. It is not a religion and neither is atheism.
Arrogant, exclusive and extreme? That is one logical possibility. The other is that it is true. And if it is true, it will sound very arrogant, exclusive and extreme. Sounding arrogant, exclusive and extreme is patently not a measure to be trusted in any objective sense.
You left out one distinct possibility, that you are an uneducated person in philosophy and religion who does not know what you don't know.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 147 of 204 (337316)
08-01-2006 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by iano
08-01-2006 8:40 PM


I rest my case - You don;t know what agnosticism is.
"And whilst I occupy that postion"
- my morals are relative
- I eat, drink and be merry for die I know I shall"
- my arguments will tend to oppose those of the "God exists" side. I will find I am, by and large, in agreement with mainline atheistic thinking.
- I will (if secretly - for only an agnostic can answer this for themselves) suppose that if there is a God then "I'm not such a bad chap, God will understand"
- from the above: reason is the way to truth. I will rely on myself (very atheistic-think)
- everytime I come to mystery I will tend to suspend my question until a naturalistic solution comes along. Goddidit is athema to me
I don;t know what you are describing but it is not agnosticism. It is your cartoon version of agnosticism.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 154 of 204 (337365)
08-02-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by RickJB
08-02-2006 4:08 AM


"God" and the IDEA of God could be different.
Whether or not God exists, both atheists and agnostics reject any notions of submission to God.
Both atheism and agnosticism are continuums so I don't think you can generalize in this way. Each person can only speak for their own beliefs. For example I am an atheist if we are talking about an omniscient, omnipotent God that intervenes as an OUTSIDE force in human history. I am a believer in a God who is present in humans and motivates humans to do good. I am an agnostic about the nature and extent of God'presence in animals and the rest of nature.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by RickJB, posted 08-02-2006 4:08 AM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
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