What would your doctor say?

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I don't have a doctor. I've never been sick enough to need one yet.

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Er, you are supposed to go to a doctor on a regular basis, for checkups, before you get sick.This is so you catch little problems and potential issues early, before they get to be big problems and serious issues.That's what doctors are trained to do.

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I think I've been to a doctor about a total of 4 times in my life.

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That's irresponsible, IMO, especially if you have any family.And, since we know that you are a heavy drinker, there is even more reason to go regularly.

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You, for example, have faith in being "responsible," if I interpret your comments correctly.

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Not Faith. Trust.Statistically, if I go to the doctor regularly, chances are that I will catch problems, should they arise, early and be able to have them taken care of in a way that will not hinder my life and will preserve my health and longevity.I don't like going to the doctor at all. But I like being healthy, feeling great every day, and I want to keep doing so for as long as possible.I also have family. I know they want me to live a long and healthy life, so I also go because of them.

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Well, I've always been irresponsible. No point in changing now!

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Why not?

So, of course this was the Christian God, and he so loved the world that he took time out of his busy schedule of ignoring the suffering of the starving millions and instead helped Iano find his lost gloves.What a crock.

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I would say there are more miracles, more people getting saved and signs and wonders that at any other time in history, right now. We are missing out a little here in America because of unbelief, but the glory of the latter house will exceed that of the former, and it's happening now.

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Yeah, like the fillings getting turned into gold, right?And let's not forget the tortillas and grilled chese sandwiches.LOL!Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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In other words, the atheists morals are so low and prone to change at his whim, that its virtualy impossible for him to ever be immoral about anything by his own standards.

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...and yet, the prisons are filled with believers.

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They are also filled with non-believers. What's your point?

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No, they aren't, at least in the US, which is what I was referring to.The prisons contain a higher percentage of Christians than in the general population, and contain virtually no athiests, fewer than in the general population:Prison population-Christian: 83.761%
General population-Christian:76.5%Prison population-Atheist:0.21%
General population-Atheist:0.9%-13.2% (depending upon how you count them)Sources:General population data is from "American Religious Identification Survey," by The Graduate Center of the City University of New YorkPrison data is from the Federal Bureau of PrisonsMy point is that for all of your claims that people who do not believe in gods have low morals, it would seem that Christians are the ones committing nearly all of the crime in this country, while it's exceedingly rare to find any atheists in the prisons at all.My point is that it would seem that, if we look at who are the criminals in this country, Christians are the ones with low moral standards.

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How do they find out if they believe in God or not?

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I suppose they ask them? What do you expect them to say?

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Yes, it is a study that uses self-identification.I expect them to say what their religious affiliation is, if any, and it seems that they have done that.How else does one tell what religion people identify as unless you ask them?

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Their replies are mostly automatic.

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And how do you know this?Besides that, are you saying that no one is to be believed when they tell another what their religious identification is?For example, when you say that you do not believe in God, you are answering automatically and it is meaningless? And when Faith says that she is a Christian, she is not to be believed, and that it is meaningles that she states this?Why, then, is there a difference in the percentage of Christians and Atheists in the prison population compared to the general population?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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I know this from my wide experience of human nature from all walks of life.

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Oh, so you just know.Why on earth do we bother to carefully collect religious demographic data when robin can just tell us that it's all meaningless.

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Many people, if asked, will say they believe in God, but this so-called belief does not affect their lives one iota. They live as though god did not exist.

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How they act is completely irrelevant what they believe, so this argument is irrelevant.

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It sounds better (in our culture) to say you believe in God.

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I agree, which is why the percentage range of Atheist is so large. Somewhere around 13% of people say that they have no religious affiliation and do not consider themselves spiritual, yet they do not classify themselves as Atheists or Agnostics.However, you haven't answered my questions.Are you saying that no one is to be believed when they state their religious affiliation?You also still haven't accounted for the discrepancy in the numbers.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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Agnosticism: the philosophical equivilent of bisexuality: you can have it any which way you like

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Wrong.Agnosticism: the only consistent, honest conclusion one can come to on the subject of the supernatural, namely, "I don't know."

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- my morals are relative

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...just as yours are.

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- I eat, drink and be merry for die I know I shall"

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...just as you will. You may believe in an afterlife but you don't know you are going anywhere. Nobody does.

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- my arguments will tend to oppose those of the "God exists" side.

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Yes, because there is no evidence of the supernatural. I am open to evidence, however.You, on the other hand, are not open in the same way but in the contrary. You will discount any argument that might cause you to doubt, no matter how strong.

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I will find I am, by and large, in agreement with mainline atheistic thinking.

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Exactly what is "mainline Atheistic thinking"?

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- I will (if secretly - for only an agnostic can answer this for themselves) suppose that if there is a God then "I'm not such a bad chap, God will understand"

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...which is just as valid as any of your beliefs, both being based upon supposition and subjective imagination.

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- from the above: reason is the way to truth. I will rely on myself (very atheistic-think)

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Yes, reason is the way to truth about the natural world.If it is the way to Truth, I don't know.You believe that belief in the supernatural is the way to Truth, but you don't know.

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- everytime I come to mystery I will tend to suspend my question until a naturalistic solution comes along. Goddidit is athema to me

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Yes.Seems to have worked really well in the course of human events up until now, don'tcha think, or do you suggest that we continue to believe that the sun is driven across the sky in a firey chariot?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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The point is that many will say they believe in God, when under duress, even if they don't. I would do that too.

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Why are you insinuating "duress" into the picture?What, do you think that the researchers, when collecting the data, made the people, either in the general popularion or in the prisons, announce their religious affiliation to everyone else?

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Being in prison is duress enough. You watch what you say if you want to get out of there.

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Like I said:What, do you think that the researchers, when collecting the data, made the people, either in the general popularion or in the prisons, announce their religious affiliation to everyone else?Why do you think that someone would give false information if it isn't going to be shared with anyone else? I do not know for sure but it is likely that none of them even gave their names.But let's say you are right, and the self-reporting by those in prison is inaccurate. Are you claiming that people in the general population are under some "duress", too, so their self reporting of religious identification cannot be believed, either?And, since you have continued to ignore these questions, I'll continue to repeat them:Besides that, are you saying that no one is to be believed when they tell another what their religious identification is?For example, when you say that you do not believe in God, you are answering automatically and it is meaningless? And when Faith says that she is a Christian, she is not to be believed, and that it is meaningles that she states this?Why, then, is there a difference in the percentage of Christians and Atheists in the prison population compared to the general population?

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Well, I certainly would not discuss my nihilism publicly, such as at work. Yes, there is a little pressure.

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Would you feel pressure to lie on an anonymous demographics form?

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No, I'm not saying that.

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Well, can we believe people when they self report their religious identification or not? You said that such data was worthless.

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The population in prison is skewed toward the uneducated. Uneducated people tend to make automatic statements.

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Says who?Are you saying that people in prison are too dumb to know what religion they are?Got any real data to back that rather remarkable claim, or is this another one of those things that you, robin, just "know"?However, you are almost there with me...Uneducated people tend to be more religious, and, specifically in our country, Christian.So, the prison population should be skewed towards Christians and should be higher than that found in the general population.Guess what? That's what we see.

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Moreover, prison is a special place where one is watched.

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But the general population is not. What about those numbers? Are they worthless?