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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
Phat
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Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 133 of 302 (903376)
12-09-2022 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Theodoric
12-09-2022 9:22 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Before I attempt to answer your question, I have a few of my own (for you)
  • What specifically makes an "expert" an expert?
  • Why are you so impressed with college degrees? (Shiny Objects)

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 131 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:22 AM Theodoric has replied

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     Message 134 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 136 by Taq, posted 12-09-2022 10:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:10 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 139 of 302 (903386)
    12-09-2022 11:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 137 by ringo
    12-09-2022 11:00 AM


    Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
    Point taken.
    In my opinion, Conservatives became more conservative. (some argue that liberals became less moderate and more extreme as well. It has been said that liberals define their own words, even while telling me I can't have my own definitions...which is fair, I suppose.
    We have discussed authoritarianism before.
    FDR(Democrat) seizes the publics gold, pays them the official value($20.00 an oz)
    then raises the price to $35.00 once the government had control of it.
    Nixon(Republican) decoupled gold and the dollar, (established at Bretton Woods in 1944)
    Ford(Republican) reestablished the right for the public to own gold.
    These days you have ignorant people claiming that the dollar determines the value of gold.
    This despite the fact that the government(Fed) "quintupled the money supply" after Covid.
    Whom do we blame? Which party? Which "expert"? And why are they experts again?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 137 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:00 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 141 of 302 (903388)
    12-09-2022 11:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 137 by ringo
    12-09-2022 11:00 AM


    Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
    ringo writes:
    Also, you should be aware that the British Conservatives of the past were not the raving lunatic scum-sucking "conservatives" in your Republican Party today.
    Apart from Trump and populism, what specifically is bad about the Republican Party of today?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 137 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:00 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 143 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:43 AM Phat has replied
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 145 of 302 (903392)
    12-09-2022 11:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 138 by ringo
    12-09-2022 11:10 AM


    Re: How The Economic Machine Works
    Lets pretend that you are the teacher. The subject is economics and political ideology.
    Assign me a couple of books that I wont like.
    Give me some work to do. (although keeping up with the unified peanut gallery can be exhausting!
    And since this topic is about Ray Dalio and his theories, I'm still puzzled why he is not an expert. He has 17 billion dollars in personal wealth, so I doubt he is selling the book to make money. He gives his information away for free, for crying out loud!
    Why critique him for founding a successful Hedge Fund? Is it not the job of a Hedge Fund manager to try and spot and analyze trends and to predict where the economy will go next?
    So you guys cant criticize him for being wealthy.
    List Of US Presidents by net worth (in 2022 dollars)
    And I would argue that he is far from ignorant regarding economics.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:10 AM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 148 of 302 (903400)
    12-09-2022 2:30 PM
    Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
    12-09-2022 11:39 AM


    Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
    phat writes:
    We have discussed authoritarianism before.
    ringo writes:
    Not much of a discussion. You call me authoritarian without knowing what it means.
    I thought i used the Dictionary! Well, to be fair I will look up a few more sources.
    Oxford writes:
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
    "he warned against the intrusion of authoritarianism in various countries"
    lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others.
    "in his authoritarianism he has displayed disrespect for the culture he works in"
    I don't care what you think about gold.
    Well I don't care what you think of macaroni either. How do you like them apples? And if the government seized your macaroni, you might then learn what I see authoritarianism as. What if they seized your stored up box of macaroni, offered you 25 cents for it, then raised the official price of macaroni to $1.00?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 142 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:39 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 149 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:16 PM Phat has replied
     Message 154 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 10:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 150 of 302 (903412)
    12-10-2022 12:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 149 by Theodoric
    12-09-2022 9:16 PM


    Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
    I knew that.. I expect some will try it again.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 149 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:16 PM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 151 by Theodoric, posted 12-10-2022 7:57 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 152 of 302 (903425)
    12-10-2022 10:11 AM
    Reply to: Message 132 by Theodoric
    12-09-2022 9:40 AM


    Re: How The Economic Machine Works
    When you get their opinions back, please quote them. I dont care about their names or party affiliation. I trust you. If you respect an "expert" I will listen to that "expert".

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 132 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:40 AM Theodoric has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 153 of 302 (903427)
    12-10-2022 10:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 151 by Theodoric
    12-10-2022 7:57 AM


    Re: Understanding the purpose of government
    Theodoric writes:
    The purpose of government is not to protect personal wealth. It is to support the commonweal.
    Commonweal? I assume you mean commonwealth. So what is commonwealth?
    Oxford Languages writes:
    Commonwealth: an independent country or community, especially a democratic republic.
    so are we a Democracy or a Republic? As a moderate, I'd say both.
    1. an aggregate or grouping of countries or other bodies.
    "a union or commonwealth of democratic, self-governing countries"
    a community or organization of shared interests in a nonpolitical field.
    "the Christian commonwealth"
    a self-governing unit voluntarily grouped with the US, such as Puerto Rico.
    "the island became a commonwealth of the United States in 1986"
    a formal title of some of the states of the US, especially Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia.
    the title of the federated Australian states.
    the republican period of government in Britain between the execution of Charles I in 1649 and the Restoration of Charles II in 1660.
    singular proper noun: Commonwealth
    2.
    an international association consisting of the UK together with states that were previously part of the British Empire, and dependencies. The British monarch is the symbolic head of the Commonwealth.
    3) (archaic)-the general good.
    Imagine a global commonwealth. In my mind, this would equate to a One World Government. At this point in time, I can see no way that such a concept would hold together. After all, if we here in the US have partisan political bickering, how on earth would the added complexities of global governance ever survive in unity?( From now on, I will address the Literalist "dogma" of an Antichrist keeping our secular discussion in mind)
    This discussion is mos def *not* about religious dogma or any actual or hypothetical "antichrists" but I will say that if such a character ever sprung up, he would never be a conservative like Trump. He likely would spring from the bowels of the CCP.
    Anyway, getting back to my main point. If in fact a commonwealth can equate to a common interest, I would argue that the purpose of said government is to protect common interest. It only makes sense that a common trait of a common interest is to protect individual wealth as well as community "wealth". Right? (unless you are a far left Marxist )

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 151 by Theodoric, posted 12-10-2022 7:57 AM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 156 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:01 AM Phat has replied
     Message 172 by Theodoric, posted 12-10-2022 1:38 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 155 of 302 (903429)
    12-10-2022 10:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 143 by ringo
    12-09-2022 11:43 AM


    Re: Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
    ringo writes:
    What more do you need?
    I need a bi-partisan government. I need a two-party system. I don't "need" one collective of "we". Why? Because *we* often disagree. I wont simply have a gang of"we" telling me what I must do, in the name of ...well take your pick:
    in the name of humanity. (that's a laugh!)
    In the name of Jesus.
    In the name of Mono-secularism. ((see? I just invented that word... I think. : )
    We can discuss this rabbit trail more at Message 191

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 143 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:43 AM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 157 of 302 (903431)
    12-10-2022 11:15 AM
    Reply to: Message 156 by ringo
    12-10-2022 11:01 AM


    Mono-Secularism *is* a One World Government.
    ringo writes:
    When are you going to stop supporting slavery the rich at your own expense?
    I'm not. Im supporting individualism at *your* expense.
    I'm in internet school this morning before I take a nap and go to work.
    I started thinking about the word that sprung up in my head...namely monosecularism.
    This led me to Wiki and to this:
    Slavic Native Faith's identity and political philosophy
    Note the following quotes from the article
    wiki:
    In the Russian intellectual milieu, Slavic Native Faith (Rodnovery) presents itself as a carrier of the political philosophy of nativism/nationalism/populism (narodnichestvo),[1] intrinsically related to the identity of the Slavs and the broader group of populations with Indo-European speaking origins,[2] and intertwined with historiosophical ideas about the past and the future of these populations and their role in eschatology.[3]
    Rodnovery typically gives preeminence to the rights of the collectivity over the rights of the individual,[6] and Rodnover social values are conservative.[7] Common themes are the opposition to cosmopolitanism, liberalism, and globalization,[8] as well as Americanisation and consumerism.[9]
    The scholar Kaarina Aitamurto defined Rodnovers' applied political systems as forms of grassroots democracy, or as a samoderzhavie ("self-rule") system, based on the ancient Slavic model of the veche (assembly) of the elders, similar to ancient Greek democracy. They generally propose a political system in which power is entrusted to assemblies of consensually-acknowledged wise men, or to a single wise individual.

    I will spout propaganda from both sides. You only spout it from one side.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 156 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:01 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 159 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:24 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 160 of 302 (903435)
    12-10-2022 11:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 156 by ringo
    12-10-2022 11:01 AM


    Re: Understanding the purpose of government
    rigo writes:
    Stop spouting far-right propaganda and learn what Marxism is.
    Only if I also get to learn what Capitalism is.
    The "common good" is not served by individual wealth.
    Tell that to Henry Ford. His company, Ford Motor Company, helped win World War II.
    Individual wealth subtracts from community wealth.
    Its a good thing that *we* didn't take Henry's individual wealth and give it to FDR. He did it himself voluntarily. And likely earned a small profit making tanks...or at least broke even. Individual Wealth is good. Don't believe everything you hear.
    Your beloved "offshore system" streals from the community wealth in favor of individual wealth.
    You seem to believe the idea that there *should* be no individual wealth. And then you have the gall to trot out Jesus to support your warped far left Marxist views. Am I wrong?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 156 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:01 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 162 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:44 AM Phat has replied
     Message 173 by Theodoric, posted 12-10-2022 1:43 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 161 of 302 (903437)
    12-10-2022 11:40 AM
    Reply to: Message 159 by ringo
    12-10-2022 11:24 AM


    Re: Mono-Secularism *is* a One World Government.
    ringo writes:
    I AM an individual, you moron. How can you support me against myself?
    That's what the antichrist will do. He will argue that since Jesus never existed, *we* must all be moral individuals and we *must* support the collective (One World Government)
    According to the Bible, He is the bad guy.
    ringo writes:
    Feel free to point to any propaganda that I have spouted.
    This whole idea that there is (or should be) no individual wealth and that we would be noble and honorable people if we supported the collective.(The commonwealth). It sounds good in theory but were such a government authoritarian and dictatorial (out of necessity, of course. ) we would have problems.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 159 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:24 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 163 of 302 (903441)
    12-10-2022 11:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 162 by ringo
    12-10-2022 11:44 AM


    Re: Understanding the purpose of government
    ringo writes:
    Nothing I have said is remotely far-left or Marxist.
    Interesting. What would you call it? Moderate?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 162 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:44 AM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 165 of 302 (903443)
    12-10-2022 11:57 AM
    Reply to: Message 162 by ringo
    12-10-2022 11:44 AM


    What Is The Common Good?
    ringo writes:
    World War II ITSELF was not for the common good. There would not have BEEN a World War II if the common good was the goal.
    OK. Explain to me how *we* could have achieved and implemented a common good that benefited Americans, Japanese, Germans and Russians all at the same time.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 162 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 11:44 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 167 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 12:00 PM Phat has replied
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 168 of 302 (903446)
    12-10-2022 12:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
    12-10-2022 11:57 AM


    Re: What Is The Common Good?
    And I might add that a useful rabbit trail would be to discuss individualism vs Collectivism.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 165 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 11:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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