Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,839 Year: 4,096/9,624 Month: 967/974 Week: 294/286 Day: 15/40 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 47 of 302 (902879)
11-28-2022 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
11-26-2022 2:54 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
It makes no sense for gold to be pegged to the dollar since the dollar can be and is inflated through the creation of more of it on demand. the dollar was pegged to gold in the twenties when FDR called in all of the gold and revalued the gold from $20.00 an ounce to $35.00 an ounce.
Why should gold be different than any other mined mineral or element? Gold is pegged to the dollar like every other thing we dig up from the ground. The value of gold is determined by how much people are willing to pay for it.
Each Empire (Dutch, British, and American) has at one time had the dominant global reserve currency. The Dutch Guilder crashed when the empire did. The British Pound also tanked at the end of WW II when Britain could not pay its debts. A similar fate awaits the Dollar, although the government is trying to keep the Dollar club afloat globally. It is at its high right now, coincidentally as war is being waged in Ukraine. You of course won't believe that the almighty dollar can crash, but we have inflated it and debased it for far too long.
Any country or economy could crash and burn, including China. No one is saying that the US is invulnerable. What we are all disagreeing with is that the US is vulnerable because we use a fiat currency.
Is the world going to switch the Chinese Yuan? Not for the foreseeable future. Who would want to switch to a currency controlled by a country no one trusts?
At the moment, the US is the superpower that most people trust. We have an economy that is open and somewhat transparent. We share the same values as other important economies. Would you want to trade in your US dollars for Chinese Yuan?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 11-26-2022 2:54 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:52 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 48 of 302 (902880)
11-28-2022 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:24 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
Authoritarian Democrats trying to control Republicans
What in the world are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2022 12:28 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 49 of 302 (902881)
11-28-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
11-27-2022 3:34 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Lets say we had a bad economic downturn. Let's say that people in the US were actually starving.
People in the US are starving right now, and we have a welfare system that they can use to buy food. Ever heard of food stamps? WIC?
Also, how do you think our country made it through the Great Depression? That's right, government programs provided food.
quote:
For four years during the Depression, the first Food Stamp Program fed 20 million people at one time or another in nearly half of the total counties in the nation. The cost was $262 million – the equivalent of over $3 billion in 2007 dollars.
The Food Stamp Program is Revived in the 60s
How was it paid for? By a progressive tax that taxed the rich more than the poor.
Phat writes:
Let's say the government (of, by and for the people, right?) mandated 60% taxes across the board.
The American people have long supported progressive tax rates. Even Republicans.
quote:
Congress raised taxes again in 1932 during the Great Depression from 25 percent to 63 percent on the top earners.
History of Federal Income Tax Rates: 1913 – 2023
The experiment has already been run.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 11-27-2022 3:34 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:50 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 53 of 302 (902885)
11-28-2022 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:52 AM


Re: Differences between 1920's policies and now
Phat writes:
The issue is what backs the money...not just the dollar but every other fiat currency globally.
Trust. A currency is as good as the trust people have in it. That is why people would rather use US dollars instead of Chinese yuan. While every currency is manipulated in some way, people trust that the US will be smart about how they shepherd their currency.
Stability is another factor. No one wants to use a currency that has big swings or is originated by an unstable country. It's hard to find a more stable country or more stable economy than the US since WW II.
Size is another factor. The larger the economy that backs a currency the better.
Phat writes:
Let us examine Global debt and tie that in with modern economic theory versus what Dalio is claiming.
The US debt is a bit high, but in line with other comparable economies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 54 of 302 (902887)
11-28-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:50 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
The US and the world cannot keep adding to an ever-growing debt even if it does feed people. Otherwise, everything and everyone will be at risk. Do you disagree?
I agree that debt can't increase forever. However, there is no reason why we can't spend less and still feed people. For example, the US spends a massive portion of its budget on the military. In fact, the US spends as much on defense as the next 20 countries combined. It seems rather silly to say that we can't spend a few billion on feeding people but we can spends 10's of billions on an aircraft carrier when we already have more than all other countries combined.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 12:19 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 57 of 302 (902891)
11-28-2022 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
11-28-2022 11:44 AM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Until I read his book in its entirety, I can't form a cognizant appraisal of his theories in regard to where the US Economy and the almighty dollar are heading.
I think the biggest danger is forming views on the economy based on the beliefs of one person. A broader understanding of the views held by economists in general would probably be a better resource than one guy, who isn't even an economist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 11:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:41 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 65 of 302 (902905)
11-28-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
11-28-2022 1:44 PM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
The prevailing thinking is that a new blockchain digital currency will be created, backed by Gold.
And what would you do with this currency? Trade it in for US dollars? If so, then why not just buy gold instead of dealing with a blockchain based system that is notorious for getting hacked?
Binance hit by $100 million blockchain bridge hack • TechCrunch
Better yet, buy a diverse selection of investments spread over bonds, index funds, and a smattering of riskier stocks. Oh, and cash them out in dollars. If you keep them for more than a year you can pay the much lower long-term capital gains tax. If you make less than ~$500,000 in investments held over 1 year you only pay 15% tax, much lower than the equivalent in income tax.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 9:23 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 66 of 302 (902906)
11-28-2022 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
11-28-2022 1:41 PM


Re: Phat's adoration of the wealthy continues
Phat writes:
Ray Dalio is quite thorough in his research about this stuff. I know that you guys think that I get far too much information from "YouTube Videos", but I am no stupid rube trolling for clickbait.
You can be as thorough as you like, but still get it wrong. Like I said earlier, you are much better of learning what the consensus is among economists instead of relying on one dude who isn't an economist.
He may not be an "official" economist, . . .
Exactly. Would you go to someone for health care if they weren't an "official" MD, or a dentist who was not an "official" dentist? Better yet, would you rely on a single economist? I wouldn't. I want to know what the consensus is, and why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phat, posted 11-28-2022 1:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(4)
Message 72 of 302 (902973)
11-29-2022 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
11-29-2022 9:23 AM


Re: Long Range Planning
Phat writes:
My long-range thinking and planning is that the dollar will tank...within 5 years at the most.
If history has shown us anything, if the dollar tanks then so too will other currencies.
There is also a silver lining to the dollar tanking. Suddenly, our exports are cheaper for other countries. This would increase profits from exports and increase profits from manufacturing. Imports would be more expensive which would incentivize people to buy US.
This is why normal business cycles are actually healthy. Recessions get rid of bloated companies and reward streamlined and efficient companies. Dips in the dollar increase profits from exports and support domestic manufacturing. This sets the foundation for future booms in the economy. By preventing natural cycles of recessions and booms we are propping up bloated and inefficient economic systems. One could also argue that trying to stop recessions only makes them worse when they inevitably occur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 9:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 73 of 302 (902996)
11-29-2022 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
11-29-2022 10:08 AM


Re: Back On Topic...Sort Of...
Phat writes:
Basically, this argument hinges on whether an investor should trust
1)Government
2)Banks
3) The Federal Reserve
You shouldn't fully trust any institution, but I would rather deal with those three agencies than the current crypto market. Have you seen what has happened with FTX? Does any cryptocurrency guarantee to insure $250,000 of your deposit? Is your bank running a Ponzi scheme like FTX with little to no oversight or regulation?
3) Does the Federal Reserve know what they are doing any more than does a man such as Ray Dalio?
Would you be able to determine who is more knowledgeable about the economy?
Many of us doubt the integrity and/or wisdom of the Fed. They helped cause the Great Depression, for example. Methinks that many of you are scared to NOT trust the system since unified trust seems to equate with a unified party, ideology, and method.
The one upside is that the Fed is accountable to the people of the US. They don't spend all of your money and then hideout on a Caribbean island to escape accountability, like the former head of FTX is doing right now. Would you prefer a system where no one is accountable to people like you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-29-2022 10:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 12-04-2022 4:10 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 96 of 302 (903205)
12-06-2022 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
12-05-2022 1:22 PM


Re: Addressing The Book
Phat writes:
Theodoric is trying in vain to discredit Ray Dalio with no evidence to back his argument up, except what he can google off of the internet. My advice is to ignore him and read the book (or watch the video) yourselves if you are at all interested in the premise.
How would you know if Dalio is wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 12-05-2022 1:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 102 of 302 (903234)
12-06-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
12-06-2022 2:36 PM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
According to Dalio's video, Liberals by and large want to redistribute. Conservatives want to maintain.

If you raise my taxes beyond a reasonable level, I will lobby to have you voted out.
If we follow the conservative idea of reducing taxes on the rich, then your taxes will have to go up.
Liberals don't want to redistribute wealth. They want to tax people based on their ability to pay taxes. Given what you have said in other posts, I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of extra income that can go towards taxes. Liberals would want to keep you taxes low. Conservatives, on the other hand, continue to increase spending while reducing taxes on the rich. Who do you think is going to get that bill?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 12-06-2022 2:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 9:38 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 104 of 302 (903252)
12-07-2022 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
12-07-2022 9:38 AM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
Britain sought to tax the crap out of wealthy rock artists such as Jagger and Richards. So what did the old stoners do? They packed up and left the country. The same thing will (and is) happening here as the Liberal agenda desperately needs tax revenue from the top 10%.
Industrialists and large business owners can't just pick up and move like rock-n-rollers. Do you think Walmarts are all just going to close?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 9:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 11:30 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 107 of 302 (903260)
12-07-2022 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
12-07-2022 11:30 AM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
Why would Walmarts close if the Walmart family left the country?
If they are still open in the US then they can be taxed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 11:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 12:59 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 109 of 302 (903266)
12-07-2022 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
12-07-2022 12:59 PM


Re: DIGITAL CURRENCY
Phat writes:
I worry that the wealthy will legally get out of paying the necessary increase in tax revenue to bail the United States out of the huge hole that it is in (which I think will never happen) and the bill will be stuck with you and I.
I am also concerned about more and more of the tax burden being shifted to middle and lower class citizens. That's why I vote Democrat.
Meanwhile, homelessness will continue to increase and the future of the country is uncertain.
We have more than enough money to put all homeless people into homes. It's just a matter of will and priorities. Just the wealth of one of the top billionaires in the US is enough to buy a simple home for all current homeless people. I'm not saying we liquidate the wealth of billionaires, only pointing out that the money exists.
What I have noticed over the years is that people have issues with government funded programs like housing the homeless because they don't think the homeless are worthy of their help. Sounds a bit harsh, but I do think that is what it boils down to. We saw this same type of attitude during the pandemic when people were getting stimulus checks. One of the loudest talking points, especially amongst conservatives, was that people were just sitting around and getting money. They hated it. Of course, they still go gangbusters for massive government subsidies for billionaires, but a few hundred bucks for poor people drives them nuts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 12:59 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-07-2022 1:52 PM Taq has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024