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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


(9)
Message 229 of 302 (904244)
12-23-2022 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
12-23-2022 1:44 AM


Re: Candace Over AOC
Phat, the American right has been going full mask-off fascist for years now. I'm not sure what you consider to be "authoritarianism," but it sounds like your definition would differ quite strongly from mine. I want the most freedom for the most people, and there is a very clear "lesser evil" among the two American political parties. Hint: it is not the Republicans.
But seriously, the Republicans are full fascist, particularly the Trump faction. The more "traditional" Republicans are at best trying to wait out the fascists while preserving their own power and dont have an actual problem with it. People like Candace Owens, Jordan Peterson, and Im sure other people you might hold in esteem are among the fascists.
Fascism (and authoritarianism) is not "a government I dont like." It isnt even "a government with too many rules that restrict my freedom," though the political party seeking to restrict freedoms is the Republican party anyway.
Fascism has a set of characteristics. Both the Republicans and the Democrats meet some of these, to different degrees. The Democrats in general are fascist-lite. Reason to be concerned. The Trump-wing Republicans are full Nazi. Godwin's Law be damned, we're literally seeing the rise of fascism in the US, and it echoes its rise in Germany after WW1 with terrifying precision.
The 14 Characteristics of Fascism, by Lawrence Britt, Spring 2003
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
"America first" has been the American-fascist slogan since forever. "Christian Nationalists" should sound familiar.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Again American conservatives are clearly embracing this one. They've supported overturning Roe v Wade forever. Theyre currently fearmongering against Trans rights (which are human rights). They've often supported literal actual torture (waterboarding, other "enhanced interrogation" techniques). They deny people their rights at the border (for all the panic about "caravans," these people were actually using the legal process they were entitled to - you present yourself at a border for consideration for refugee status, there's nothing illegal there).
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Today the Trans community appears to be the primary scapegoat. The very people you've mentioned as respecting promote anti-Trans propaganda. Tans people are not "groomers." Drag performers (who are mostly not Trans anyway) are not "groomers."
Supremacy of the Military
Do I even need to say anything here? Both parties are guilty of this one, but the Trump wing tries to go even further.
Rampant Sexism
Jordan Peterson is a good example of a manosphere misogynist. There are plenty of other examples. Democrats can be sexist too, but Republicans make the oppression of women through the enforcement of rigid traditional gender roles a party platform.
Controlled Mass Media
Trump and his cronies have been setting up their own media platforms for a while now, to out-fascist even Fox News. The news media in America has always been problematic - they're more about preserving the status quo, maintaining existing power structures and manufacturing consent, than about actually informing the public - but the outrage-fueled modern 24-hr news media has been leaning harder and harder to the right.
Obsession with National Security
Ironic that Trump, arguably the largest threat to national security in our country's history, has always clamored for more authority to punish people for endangering it. Both the Republicans and Democrats love this one though - always wanting more police authority to strengthen the surveillance state.
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Christian Nationalists, again. The Democrats at least want actual religious freedom, meaning they support everyone's right to believe or not believe according to the dictates of their own conscience, and they recognize that this means government needs to just stay out of the matter. The Republicans only respect the freedom to worship Jesus however you please, and actively seek to ensconce their religious beliefs in law. The Trumpists are literally the American Taliban. They want the Christian version of Sharia Law.
Corporate Power is Protected
Both the Republicans and the Democrats are guilty here. America is an oligarchy more than anything else; especially since Citizens United (but before that too), the wealthy play both sides of the political aisle.
This is why there are no actual socialists in American government, Phat, no matter what Fox News has told you.
Labor Power is Suppressed
Both parties again, but again the Republicans are worse. American union movements have stagnated, in part because our labor protection laws are pathetic.
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
The Trump wing wins "bigly" here as well.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
"Law and order" anyone?
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
For all the conservative winging about Hunter Biden and his sinister laptop, Hunter has never actually held any US government office.
Trump was all about appointing family to government positions. And his management style is the textbook definition of cronyism.
Fraudulent Elections
Trump and conservatives literally tried to overthrow a legal election by claiming a non-fraudulent election was fraudulent, simply because he lost. And he knew he lost. And he admitted he knew he lost, and lied about it anyway.
America has been sinking into fascism for years now. The Democrats are fascist-lite. The Republicans are completely fascist.
Phat, you "respect" literal fascists.
Back in 1945 the Dept of the Army made a propaganda film as a reaction to the American fascist movements around WW2. There was a real chance America could have sided with the Nazis back then. There was an American Nazi party.
There is now, too. They just use different names.
Dont be a sucker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4&t
EDIT to add another video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83mtXbwPNkc
Another excellent rundown of the 14 characteristics, as well as the 10 stages of fascism, which I didnt cover.

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 12-23-2022 1:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by ringo, posted 12-31-2022 12:23 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 01-11-2023 11:59 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


(4)
Message 252 of 302 (904902)
01-10-2023 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Phat
01-01-2023 10:28 AM


Re: Getting Back On Topic
quote:
This topic has wandered far off course. We have a New Year (2023! Woot) and we are still moving quickly towards a New World Order.
Thats true.
The New World Order that we're marching toward is the rise of fascism, globally. Led chiefly by Donald Trump and the American Republican Party in general.
I'll note that you never replied to my message about the 14 characteristics of fascism.
It's happening right now. The fascists are gaining ground. More of them have been elected to the House (granted, it was a miracle that even more fascists weren't elected, but the fact remains that they are gaining ground). Authoritarian right-wing christian-nationalists promoting a mythic past and demonizing liberals, immigrants, and (most especially lately) the LGBT community and their allies.
What we see is so amazingly close to pre-WW2 Germany that it can only be denied by the ignorant or the dishonest.
So which are you, Phat?

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Phat, posted 01-01-2023 10:28 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2023 9:47 AM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4042
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.7


(1)
Message 254 of 302 (904908)
01-11-2023 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Theodoric
01-11-2023 9:47 AM


Re: Getting Back On Topic
I know, it seems not much has changed since I was last active here. But with the rise of fascism, I feel the need to push the message as hard as possible.
The general apathy of the public was another thing that pre-WW2 Germany saw as well, as the fascists took over.
"Hitler Tamed by Prison" was, without looking it up, I believe a direct headline quote after he was arrested for his version of Jan 6...

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2023 9:47 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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