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Author Topic:   The Changing World Order
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 136 of 302 (903382)
12-09-2022 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Phat
12-09-2022 9:41 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Phat writes:
What specifically makes an "expert" an expert?
A degree in the subject they are an expert in.
Papers published in journals within the field of expertise.
Recognition by other experts.
That would be a good start. How many papers has Dalio published in economics journals? Does he have a degree in economics? What do economists say about his ideas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 9:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 137 of 302 (903384)
12-09-2022 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
12-08-2022 4:03 PM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
My point is that the allied block had both conservatives and liberals involved in the war effort.
Next are you going to make the point that water is wet?
Of course there were both liberals and conservatives on the Allied side. If you had read your own wiki quote, you would know that Churchill himself was both a Liberal and a Conservative.
Also, you should be aware that the British Conservatives of the past were not the raving lunatic scum-sucking "conservatives" in your Republican Party today.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 12-08-2022 4:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:26 AM ringo has replied
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 138 of 302 (903385)
12-09-2022 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Phat
12-09-2022 9:41 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Phat writes:
Why are you so impressed with college degrees?
Because you have to do the work to get one. You have to take classes you don't want to take and hear ideas you don't want to hear. You can't just turn a semester off like a YouTube video and find another one that you like better.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 9:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:53 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 139 of 302 (903386)
12-09-2022 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by ringo
12-09-2022 11:00 AM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Point taken.
In my opinion, Conservatives became more conservative. (some argue that liberals became less moderate and more extreme as well. It has been said that liberals define their own words, even while telling me I can't have my own definitions...which is fair, I suppose.
We have discussed authoritarianism before.
FDR(Democrat) seizes the publics gold, pays them the official value($20.00 an oz)
then raises the price to $35.00 once the government had control of it.
Nixon(Republican) decoupled gold and the dollar, (established at Bretton Woods in 1944)
Ford(Republican) reestablished the right for the public to own gold.
These days you have ignorant people claiming that the dollar determines the value of gold.
This despite the fact that the government(Fed) "quintupled the money supply" after Covid.
Whom do we blame? Which party? Which "expert"? And why are they experts again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:00 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Taq, posted 12-09-2022 11:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:39 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 140 of 302 (903387)
12-09-2022 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:26 AM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
These days you have ignorant people claiming that the dollar determines the value of gold.
This despite the fact that the government(Fed) "quintupled the money supply" after Covid.
Whom do we blame? Which party? Which "expert"? And why are they experts again?
Why are you so focused on gold? Gold is no different than any other commodity. Why not talk about the price of a bushel of corn, or the price of cobalt? Why gold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:26 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 141 of 302 (903388)
12-09-2022 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by ringo
12-09-2022 11:00 AM


Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
ringo writes:
Also, you should be aware that the British Conservatives of the past were not the raving lunatic scum-sucking "conservatives" in your Republican Party today.
Apart from Trump and populism, what specifically is bad about the Republican Party of today?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:00 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:43 AM Phat has replied
 Message 144 by Taq, posted 12-09-2022 11:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 142 of 302 (903389)
12-09-2022 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:26 AM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
Phat writes:
We have discussed authoritarianism before.
Not much of a discussion. You call me authoritarian without knowing what it means.
Phat writes:
FDR(Democrat) seizes the publics gold....
I don't care what you think about gold.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 2:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 143 of 302 (903390)
12-09-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:38 AM


Re: Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
Phat writes:
Apart from Trump and populism, what specifically is bad about the Republican Party of today?
As I said in another place: That's like asking what floats a boat apart from the water?
What more do you need?
The Republicans let Trump get away with his crimes. What more do you need? They obstruct Congress. What more do you need?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 10:51 AM ringo has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(7)
Message 144 of 302 (903391)
12-09-2022 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:38 AM


Re: Another Rabbit Trail On Modern Conservatism
Phat writes:
Apart from Trump and populism, what specifically is bad about the Republican Party of today?
Erosion of voting rights.
Erosion of reproductive rights.
Lack of any vision for a better health care system.
Threatening of vital social programs like Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security.
Playing footsy with theocracy.
Attacks on basic constitutional norms, like accepting the results of elections.
Using fake culture wars to disguise the damage they are doing to the middle class.
Attacks on important institutions like law enforcement and courts.
Treating people who tried to overthrow the government as heroes.
I could go on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 145 of 302 (903392)
12-09-2022 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by ringo
12-09-2022 11:10 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Lets pretend that you are the teacher. The subject is economics and political ideology.
Assign me a couple of books that I wont like.
Give me some work to do. (although keeping up with the unified peanut gallery can be exhausting!
And since this topic is about Ray Dalio and his theories, I'm still puzzled why he is not an expert. He has 17 billion dollars in personal wealth, so I doubt he is selling the book to make money. He gives his information away for free, for crying out loud!
Why critique him for founding a successful Hedge Fund? Is it not the job of a Hedge Fund manager to try and spot and analyze trends and to predict where the economy will go next?
So you guys cant criticize him for being wealthy.
List Of US Presidents by net worth (in 2022 dollars)
And I would argue that he is far from ignorant regarding economics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:10 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Taq, posted 12-09-2022 12:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 147 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 12:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 146 of 302 (903393)
12-09-2022 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:53 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Phat writes:
And since this topic is about Ray Dalio and his theories, I'm still puzzled why he is not an expert. He has 17 billion dollars in personal wealth, so I doubt he is selling the book to make money.
Having lots of money does not make you an expert in economics. In the same way, owning lots of buildings does not make you a structural engineer.
Why critique him for founding a successful Hedge Fund? Is it not the job of a Hedge Fund manager to try and spot and analyze trends and to predict where the economy will go next?
That's not economics. Finding trends does not necessarily teach you why those trends exist or what causes them. I can take any data set and find trends, but that doesn't mean I understand the underlying mechanisms that produced the data. Dalio is definitely an expert in investing money, but that doesn't make him an expert in economics. Those aren't the same thing.
I suspect that you think Dalio is an expert because of your emotional reaction to his ideas. Am I wrong? Are you using your own expertise in economics to dissect his ideas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 147 of 302 (903394)
12-09-2022 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Phat
12-09-2022 11:53 AM


Re: How The Economic Machine Works
Phat writes:
Lets pretend that you are the teacher. The subject is economics and political ideology.

Assign me a couple of books that I wont like.
I haven't read much about economics or political ideology, so I can't recommend much reading. Somebody else probably can.
Phat writes:
Give me some work to do.
I just wish you'd respond to more of what I say.
Phat writes:
... keeping up with the unified peanut gallery can be exhausting!
There's no "unified" peanut gallery.
Phat writes:
... I doubt he is selling the book to make money. He gives his information away for free, for crying out loud!
Lots of celebrities who don't need the money write books. What else are celebrities known for? Ego.
Phat writes:
And I would argue that he is far from ignorant regarding economics.
You're hardly in a position to decide who's ignorant about economics.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 148 of 302 (903400)
12-09-2022 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
12-09-2022 11:39 AM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
phat writes:
We have discussed authoritarianism before.
ringo writes:
Not much of a discussion. You call me authoritarian without knowing what it means.
I thought i used the Dictionary! Well, to be fair I will look up a few more sources.
Oxford writes:
the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
"he warned against the intrusion of authoritarianism in various countries"
lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others.
"in his authoritarianism he has displayed disrespect for the culture he works in"
I don't care what you think about gold.
Well I don't care what you think of macaroni either. How do you like them apples? And if the government seized your macaroni, you might then learn what I see authoritarianism as. What if they seized your stored up box of macaroni, offered you 25 cents for it, then raised the official price of macaroni to $1.00?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 12-09-2022 11:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:16 PM Phat has replied
 Message 154 by ringo, posted 12-10-2022 10:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 149 of 302 (903411)
12-09-2022 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Phat
12-09-2022 2:30 PM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
But that isn't how the gold deal went down. The things you don't understand always astound me. The purpose was not to fuck people over but to stabilize the economy.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 12-09-2022 2:30 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 12-10-2022 12:37 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 150 of 302 (903412)
12-10-2022 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Theodoric
12-09-2022 9:16 PM


Re: A Brief Rabbit Trail starring FDR and the Dems
I knew that.. I expect some will try it again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Theodoric, posted 12-09-2022 9:16 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Theodoric, posted 12-10-2022 7:57 AM Phat has replied

  
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