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Author Topic:   Neither a theist nor an atheist
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 36 of 118 (732598)
07-08-2014 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by granpa
07-08-2014 1:33 PM


At this point someone usually interjects "But all information comes to us through our senses therefore all information is empirical". That may be true, but the way we process that information isn't always empirical. Intuition can give true and justified results ...
Or not. And unless and until you check it out against the evidence, how can you know which?
Intuition can't tell you whether a given idea is true or not, but if used properly, it does tell you whether that idea is reasonable or not.
Which would be great if the world conformed to our ideas of what is "reasonable". If science has taught us one thing, it's that it doesn't. To use your "intuition" to decide what's "reasonable" and then not put it to the test of experience is the quickest and surest way to close your mind.

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 Message 30 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 1:33 PM granpa has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 11:41 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 38 of 118 (732600)
07-08-2014 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by granpa
07-08-2014 11:41 PM


something is either reasonable or it is not.
What do you want "reasonable" to mean?
Our "ideas" have nothing to do with it
Even if we grant the proposition that "something is either reasonable or it is not", we do have different ideas of what is reasonable. And it is with ideas that intuition supplies us.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 11:41 PM granpa has replied

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 Message 39 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 11:46 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 40 of 118 (732602)
07-08-2014 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by granpa
07-08-2014 11:46 PM


something is reasonable if there is a reason why it could happen
So the statement "Dr A is wearing a green hat", for example, would be reasonable, because there is a reason why it could happen, but false because I am not actually wearing a green hat?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 39 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 11:46 PM granpa has replied

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 Message 41 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 11:52 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 42 of 118 (732605)
07-09-2014 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by granpa
07-08-2014 11:52 PM


as I clearly stated earlier intuition can not tell you whether something is true or not. It can only tell you whether it is a reasonable possibility or not
I'm not sure how broad you intend this criterion to be. After all, there is a sense in which I might find a doorway to a magic world in the back of my wardrobe: it is a logical possibility.

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 Message 41 by granpa, posted 07-08-2014 11:52 PM granpa has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by granpa, posted 07-09-2014 12:08 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 44 of 118 (732607)
07-09-2014 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by granpa
07-09-2014 12:08 AM


Why not? After all, magic is just something that would be against the laws of our universe. They might be just as astonished by electricity as we are by their magic lamps and flying carpets.
Anyway, this aside, it's still hard to see just what you mean by "reasonable".
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 43 by granpa, posted 07-09-2014 12:08 AM granpa has replied

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 Message 45 by granpa, posted 07-09-2014 12:20 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 47 of 118 (732612)
07-09-2014 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by granpa
07-09-2014 12:20 AM


the possibility that other universes might have different laws from our own is a reasonable possibility. But they must follow some sort of laws of cause and effect and that means it isn't magic
I sha'n't quibble over what you want to call it, if I saw a fairy godmother turning a pumpkin into a coach I'd call it "magic", if you want to call it something else that's fair enough.
Let's get back to what you mean by "reasonable".

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 Message 45 by granpa, posted 07-09-2014 12:20 AM granpa has not replied

  
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