what would it take to convert you to the other side

Mmm, hadn't thought of that. Maybe that would be merciful and good for God to do, if that's what it would take to save the lost soul.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

It does not pay a prophet to be too specific.

​

L. Sprague de Camp

---

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Actually, there are two ways I can approach this question:
1. What would it take to remove insurmountable obstacles to my conversion (ie, the severe ethical and practical obstacles)?
and
2. What would do the final trick of turning me (ie, get me past my severe theological problems with Christianity)?In re #1, the insurmountable obstacles consist mainly of the requirement to believe several things that are blatantly and obviously contrary-to-fact, and the rampant dishonesty that is both practiced zealously and encouraged by the corrupt environment engendered by creationism.So what would need to happen on this level is for creationists and the Christians they are deceiving to stop teaching blatant falsehoods and stop lying and convert to honesty and truth. And the Christian community would need to encourage honesty and truthful and learning everything they can about the subjects that they make pronouncements about and to stop encouraging the use of lies and deception. Until that happens, I could never possibly even begin to consider converting; question #2 cannot even begin to be addressed until #1 has been resolved.In re #2, I have strong problems with the theology that would need to resolved. Primarily problems stemming from the theology's assumptions of human infallibility.I don't see how question #2 could be answered with anything short of direct revelation ... with solid physical evidence backing it up.

You'd have to ask them. Also keep in mind theists have also converted to atheism. You'd have to ask them why too. Each of us has our own different reasons for our beliefs. It's best not to generalize in to a one lump sum fits all. Because prophecy is extremely vague and one can infer many meanings from such vagueness. In short, because of its vagueness, prophecy can be made to fit just about any condition you want. So, like many Bible versus, they can be made to fit what a person wants it to fit,and voila! A prophecy is fulfilled. This kind of precision gets rid of that vagueness.I also like this quote from Babylon 5: Edited by Tram law, : fixed tagsEdited by Tram law, : No reason given.

I think it's easier to get their prayer of god striking me with lightning than to get them to stop lying. At least there is a chance for me to get struck by lightning, even if it is a small chance.

As I have told many a christian, the same type of evidence that would convince you that ____(insert name of non-christian deity here)____ is real.

There are plenty of people who have gotten struck by lightning and survived. Just pray for a jolt enough to knock me off my feet but doesn't kill me. With my case, it's actually even easier for your god to strike me with lightning. I'm one of those that doesn't seek shelter when it rains. In fact, I occasionally take a run in the rain down the bike path. I've once actually witnessed lightning hit a tree. Too bad it missed me completely.

While viewing the second part, ads kept cropping up for "never-ending pasta bowl". Was that a manifestation of The Noodly One? The Great Flying Spaghetti Monster?Repent! For it is written: The more pasta, the more life!

quote:

---

1. There are former theists here who have converted to athiesm, contrary to the video.

---

The vide doesn't say that theists NEVER convert. It just says that no theist he has met can explain what evidence it would take to get him to convert.

quote:

---

2. Your video athiests would require specific dates for fulfillment of prophecy. Why? What's wrong with specific events or specific evidence verifying fulfillment; evidence, that is, like things naturally impossible, such as techy stuff na'er thought possible becoming reality and a nation of people scattered globally to return to their native nation after dispersion of nineteen centuries, etc?

---

It's not true that they insist on specific dates. As for the other thing there is a basic difference between you and the average atheist. The average atheist is not impressed by lies. I know that you find lies convincing evidence - you've told us often enough. We don't.

no need for a specific date for me a general timezone and a not so vague prophecy would do something like 20 centuries after the son of god first came on to the earth the ground will shake and europa will be swalowed by the seas.a prophecy likeTo the enemy, the enemy faith promised
Will not be kept, the captives retained:
One near death captured, and the remainder in their shirts,
The remainder damned for being supported.from nostradamus does not cut it for me you can interpret it any way you wish and at some point in time one interpretation must come trueQuatrains of Nostradamus - Century X

I believe a lot of things exist. My head is filled with entities which I believe exists.Kettles, tables, cats, penguins etc.There are lots of things that I believe exist that I've never seen with my own eyes.Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, Mercury and their moons. Africa, Antartica, the Titanic.There are things that I will probably never see, that I believe exist or have existed. Hot Jupiters, black holes etc.There are people I've never met, who are dead, that I believe did once exist in a living sense.Henry VIII, John Hunyadi, my paternal grandfather.When a deity has something like they have going for it - I'll believe it exists just as I believe they exist.Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

Is there a list somewhere?Edited by nator, : quote box

A prophet need not specify dates in mellinnial prophecy to be specific, especially when fulfillment entails eras such as the Industrial (and techy) Revolution rather than specific dates.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

So Buz, once again I ask that you pick one single prophecy that you believe you can support and start a thread on it.

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Presumably what they (and all the other things you list) have going for them is evidence-of-the-empirical kind. And since there isn't this kind of evidence for God you have no reason to believe God exists?But if God were to turn up empirically (sufficient to convince you of his existance) he would immediately destroy empiricism as a means whereby you say you can believe things exist - including him. You'd then be in the position of realising that He is the one who designed the process whereby you now believe he exists - which makes you reliant on him for your belief in fact - not the process he has designed. The empirical process would be rendered an irrelevant middleman as soon as God turns up by it.Would you be happy to state that you'd be as satisfied with God turning up by personal, direct revelation as you would be his turning up by empirical demonstration? Both means would depend equally on him afterall.Edited by iano, : No reason given.