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Author | Topic: what would it take to convert you to the other side | |||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If I die and there is simply cessation... wait, do I need to be conscious to convert to atheist?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So Buz, once again I ask that you pick one single prophecy that you believe you can support and start a thread on it.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Are you sure you want to use Frank Tipler as your example? LOL
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Maybe that he proposes a way to immortality and resurrection with computers based on the universe itself that eventually becomes infinitely powerful and becomes god.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
He's very bright. He realized that if he wrote books claiming "Science Proves not just God but the Christian God" he would get rich.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And I am still wondering how you test 'direct personal revelation' other than by using empiricism?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But the same answers would apply to both situations (a theist becoming an atheist and a theist converting to a different religion), so it would be valid to ask what it would take for a theist to convert to a different religion. Of course that would depend on the individual. A person of relatively weak faith would be more likely to hold tightly to a given Faith, even a given Sect of a given Faith then a person with stronger faith. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
How does god show that she is the source of empiricism other then empirically?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If there was empirical evidence to show that God actually exists, would you guys become a Christian and worship God? Several issues buried in there. First, if there was empirical evidence a God existed there is no assurance that it would be one of the Christian gods. The second big issue involves worship. Before someone should worship something they should at least respect that critter and deem it worthy of worship. Empirical evidence that a god exists is certainly sufficient to recognize that existence, but worship is entirely different subject. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
In the case of God, all points of empiricism are reliant on him and so the trust we place in that empirical method must be shifted from the method to that which stands behind the method. Namely Him. Yet according to the Bible, that is NOT what happens.
John 20 writes: Jesus Appears to Thomas24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." 26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." Empiricism did NOT cease nor was it replaced. There is NO indication that Thomas stopped relying on empirical methods or that Jesus abandoned using empirical methods.
More John 20 writes: 30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Empiricism continues. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I believe you asserted that empiricism would cease to exist?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
iano writes: jar writes: I believe you asserted that empiricism would cease to exist? Sorry. The contextual intent attempted to convey the notion that empiricism would cease to be the independent basis whereby you know God exists. It would be reduced to the position of middleman - in the same way that a hammer is the middleman between me and a nail. The nail is pushed home by me and I can chose any number of means to push it home. You are made aware of God by God and he can use any number of means to make you aware. But you have not even mentioned any other way. This assertion that God can use any number of ways is oft repeated, but as yet I have never found anyone that will innumerate them or explain how they are used. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
iano writes: It wouldn't be too difficult to appreciate a God capable of creating 5 senses (6, if counting proprioception) creating another one which is capable of direct interaction with him. It's not necessary to elaborate further than "personal revelation" as that interaction in order to make my point. Word salad. What are these additional senses? How are they tested and confirmed? How do you know the "personal revelation" is actually from God and not just a New Mexico Green Chili Enchilada? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
iano writes: You don't seem to have grasped the problem. You are correct. I do not grasp the problem. How would my empirically determining the nail exists invalidate empiricism? It seems to me that the problem is that once god can be tested empirically god becomes just another nail? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What you describe makes god just another item that has been verified empirically, yet another nail, another thing we have identified and understand.
And you still have not explained how you test "personal revelation"? How do you know that it is not just the result of a old Cabrito? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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