If the Bible is metaphorical then perhaps so is the God of the Bible

Thanks for the exchange Peg.
Hope things are well ... The young lady is dishonest only one time throughout the narrative.It is in plain sight. Deviant isn't a good word; I would like to retract that if I may.A more accurate description may suggest imperfect or unfinished.Perhaps a bit dishonest and unsure of the truth as well. Absolutely. Disobedience doesn't cause the realization of nakedness ...Fruit does.Within the narrative, disobedience causes the realization of deception. Where does the text indicate anything about perfection?One Love

Thanks for the exchange greentwiga.
Hope all is well. That is an interesting message; unfortunately, as far as I can tell, not one easily found in an honest plain reading of the text.The story in my bible seems to indicate the couple was deceived into becoming more like a God. Much more than that may be gleamed if we lend the authors any credit.I am fairly imaginative, consider that a warning, but I will attempt to clarify the message I beleive the author was attempting to convey. Of course, by no means do I suggest that the following drivel is the only correct interpretation.It is simply one.If I was to take an honest gander, I'd bet the authors of the narrative were describing, in poetic, proverbial, and metaphorical form, the creation of the human species that is fully endowed with the mental faculty of reason (the knowledge of good and bad), as well as the mental faculty of creative intellect (the imagination).These two mental faculties enable humans to manipulate their God-given natural environment and in doing so human society becomes agrarian and urbanized - humans till the ground from which they were taken (Gen. 3:23), and the first 'tent-village' becomes the mother of all inhabitants (Gen. 3:20).These advancements, however, come with a price ...1) Humans begin judging the Father and the Father's creation, thus causing them to believe they are separate from Him.2) Humans begin judging one another.As a consequence of implementing the 'Knowledge of Good and Evil', the human species must begin exploring outside the Garden In Eden, at the risk of leaving behind almost all hope of reaching the 'Tree of the Life'; which the species has been told 'guards' the way back to it's Father's garden. Thus, mortal human existence begins spreading across the earth and eventually subdues it. That's about all I got so far without gettin' too detailed ...The way back into the Garden In Eden is described within the Gospel of the Kingdom presented by Yeshua the Anointed One and is also described by the author in the final verse of the Garden text. The 'cherubim' and the 'flame of the sword' that turns every way both 'keep' as well as 'preserve' the way to the 'Tree of the Life'. Your probably right.Nevertheless, spouting any sort of reasoning is as easily accomplished without questioning nakedness ... ... as you can see.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe ...
Tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
Why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange ...
Hope things are well. It seems as Theo is stating that, although he does not provide the same reverence to these ancient texts as some do, he is also not under the assumption that he has an understanding of them either. I could be wrong.That said, you do understand that the 'narrow gate' is the one that accepts the Anointed One as leader, and follows HIS commands, while rejecting the worship of His blood libel, right? [clicks heels]

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... there's no place like home ...

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... there's no place like home ...

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... there's no place like home ...lol - seriously brutha jay, choose a portion of the bible that we can discuss constructively, and I'll play nice. I will make an honest attempt to not be antagonistic, that we may perhaps share some simple insights. Maybe do it in that other thread we were in though (Bible Study:cover 2 cover, etc.), unless you wanna just discuss strictly metaphorical stuff in this one.You are obviously not obligated, but it may prove enlightening.One Love

Thanks for the exchange John 10:10.
Hope things are well with you ... Pure and simple, huh.Allow me an attempt to make it more simple and pure for you John 10:10 ...A 'Christian' cult is anyone who relies on the ritualistic magic of a blood libel for the expressed purpose of attaining continuous living. (Reality, EvCost 193)You are a cult member no better than a Yehovah's Witness.Open your eyes; take in a wider perspective ...One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : sp.

Thank you for the exchange brutha jay.
Hope things are well with you today ...I thought we may utilize this as we go.

Links to 'blood' reference in Yeshua Testament's (116)

• Various Gospels devoted to HaMachiach (31)
  
  • Matthew: 11
  • Mark: 4
  • Luke: 8
  • John: 8
  
  
  
  
• History of Various Traditions (14)
  
  • Acts: 14
  
  
  
  
• Paul the Pharisee and ghost jesus (20)
  
  • Romans: 6
  • 1 Corinthians: 4
  • 2 Corinthians: 1
  • Galatians: 1
  • Ephesians: 4
  • Philippians: 1
  • Colossians: 3
  
  
  
  
• Other Considerable Epistles (33)
  
  • Hebrews: 25
  • James: 1
  • 1 Peter: 2
  • 1 John: 4
  • 2 John: 1
  
  
  
  
• The Unveiling of Yeshua HaMashiach (18)
  
  • The Unveiling: 18
  
  
  
  

There's a handy dandy 'blood' drive for quick reference and the first few from Matisyahu below ...

quote:

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Mat 9:20

But a woman who had been suffering from a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak.

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Mat 12:50

For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

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Mat 16:17

And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!

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Mat 23:30

And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have participated with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’

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Mat 23:35

so that on you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

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Mat 26:28

for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

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Mat 27:4

saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood!” But they said, “What is that to us? You take care of it yourself!”

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Mat 27:6

The chief priests took the silver and said, “It is not lawful to put this into the temple treasury, since it is blood money.”

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Mat 27:8

For this reason that field has been called the “Field of Blood” to this day.

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Mat 27:24

When Pilate saw that he could do nothing, but that instead a riot was starting, he took some water, washed his hands before the crowd and said, “I am innocent of this man’s blood. You take care of it yourselves!”

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Mat 27:25

In reply all the people said, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”

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I am going to make an attempt to keep my posts shorter than I often do. We'll see how it goes ... but remember, I may not be able to engage your entire posts if they are super long.It seems that Matisyahu 23:35 may speak against the worship of righteous prophet blood. What do you think? Blood does not seem to have had a place in the ministry of the Anointed One. I find few references in his discourse to the crowds concerning such doctrine. Yet, many appear to suggest that 'the mystical of the power' is 'in the blood', or something like that that. Which verses do you feel best support a blood libel of the Anointed One? What do you think this means? Perhaps the key to understanding may be performing this in remembrance of Him, rather than, in hopes of our own. If people attempt to tie the resurrection to this, it may easily become more about them and ghost heaven, rather than remembering humanity, the world and the life of Yeshua HaMashiach. You know what I mean jean?I have imagined the bread/life as Yeshua's birth and the wine/blood as his murder, and so, when we take them in, there is the sense we are accepting, as the Father's children, Yeshua HaMashiach's obedient and powerful life and murder as our own fate, as our Mashiach did. Perhaps Matisyahu 23:30 speaks to this ... Interesting. Please, expound ... I don't know. Although, I did confide in you how I am able to accomodate the symbolism of the innocent blood shedding, it, nevertheless, represents murder to me. Like the murder of an innocent slave. Thankfully, there is no place within me to consider innocent slave murder worship. It has been hedged out apparently.An aside ...Do you remember what brother Yacov admonishes us about religion in the book entitled after him? I think the later added ghost and blood libel mythology may have began the defiling process. There are, at least, two traditions clearly depicted in Acts, one revolving around a 'Christ' (Romans, etc.), and at least one other revolving around 'HaMashiach' (Hebrews, etc.). Maybe we can examine and discuss their distinctions if it seems good.I'll be honest. I don't think ol' uncle Paul was being intentionally malicious. However, I have wondered if certain verses, like Hebrews 12:15 for example, may have warned of his relentless tendencies. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure He thought he was helping things.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : sp.

lol - I truly adore these forums ...I really do. Ahem ...I shall have to politely disagree with you both, and to this, if I may, I would add that there seems to be, perhaps, no better a place to be found in all o' the entirety of the interwebz wherein these things may be discussed. You see, the thing is, to enjoy your time here is to enjoy your time while in the middle of the road, constantly dodging traffic all the while, and so, it seems that, there becomes a very lil' outside chance that one may remain unawares of their surroundings for too long, unless - of course - one opts for the simple game o' chick'n.Ba-gawk!One LoveEdited by Bailey, : grammar

Thank you for the exchange brutha jay ...
Hope all is well with you and yours. Merely? I cannot but help seemingly notice a steadfast tendency on behalf of many traditions, such as those carried on by Peg, purpledawn, John 10:10 and yourself as only a few identifiable examples, wherein the words of the Prophets are simply and blatantly suppressed. A prime example may be your collective and continual insistences that burnt offerings and blood sacrafices were established by the Father on Mt.Horeb. Apparently, as this wine is sipped, one becomes continually drunk.Yirmiyahu declares, as far as being from the Father, such commands were not.Instead, they were dreamt up by some poli-religious pranksters, for obvious reasons that I'm sure none would care to discuss. You see, the thing is, those blood thirsty pranksters got so thirsty that they became clever enough to know that one cannot prove whether sins are indeed forgiven without the shedding of innocent blood, and so, for those yet without teshuva & enumah towards Abba Father, there is the sense that psychological barriers become erected, soon favoring the limits of the Father's capacity, as the Innocent Blood of the World is steadily siphened out of Life.Within the passage from Matisyahu above, Yeshua is depicted as reprimanding, and perhaps replacing, the ill equiped priests who had come to be an infectious disease within Yuhdaism through their lusts for the Fat o' the Land™ and continual Shedding of Innocent Blood™; both trademarks of the corrupted Levitical priesthood, upon whose shoulders, according to the Law and the Prophets, the entire hocus pocus blood magic rituals lay.If it is not yet obvious that Yeshua's ministry, which involved water purification methods, was in favor of suppressing blood atonement concepts, which the RCC/Levitical priesthood attempted to resurrect in the name of 'the christ' to appease an unending lust for ritualistic blood magic and what not, perhaps we may dedicate a thread to such a topic and hear what the Prophets have to say, while considering reality, the RCC texts and CE historical data as well.It seems, in the end, that many within Yuhdaism still think that killing all those animals served a purpose besides destruction, which, in turn, apparently causes 'christians' to suppose innocent murder can accomplish continuous life. It seems like forms of death anxiety are, perhaps, accusing the Prophets of lying. As far as I can tell, you are all mostly dishonest to yourselves in these regards. What is to be gained by believing our biblical traditions instead of reality, as opposed to our Bible and Reality? That is correct. Yirmiyahu and Yeshua are persecuted everytime someone assigns a future value to the spilling of innocent blood, as they both delivered traditions that disposed of such nonsense. Unforunately, people would rather take their risks that the corporation of religion understands less about profits than the Prophets understand about the Father. When we take our place before the Mercy Seat, perhaps we will have a chance to explain our reasoning for considering hocus pocus blood magic rituals and biblical inerrancy, in place of pure grace and scribal forgeries. One can surely hope.One Love

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe ...
Tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
Why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thank you for the exchange brutha jay ...
Hope all is well with you and yours. A blood libel is an allegation, accusation, or even confirmation, at times true, others sensationalized and still others fancified; finally, some are even false. As such, this charge contends that a person or group has engaged in a human sacrifice, often of an innocent child, in which claim to the blood of the victim has been laid and further employed in various rituals. The long and short of it, perhaps ... usurper/serpent/HaSaTaN/religion? Idk?? What say ye? Imagine the mountains we may all move together as we place as much of the Prophets faith in water, which the Father created, in the beginning, as the foundation of this world, as we are blindly encouraged, by corrupted traditions, to place in blood, which was not created in the beginning.Either way, we have the joy of thanking the Father for HaMashiach's teshuva & enumah and our portion in it.Faith the size of mustard seeds kids ... Perhaps one may regard this event as the end of HaMashiach's earthly ministry and the beginning of other earthly variant traditions.Yet, I would say that you are right to suppose it is more than simply that ... the venomous murder was the price set to live freely and honestly. Perhaps you are onto something, yet ...First, I must say, have you not heard? O' yea babes, of lil' faith, be thankful in all things ... the wages of sin are death. Before leavin' the field & headin' to their Father's house, are the laborers not paid their due wage? Or should we suppose it the other way around? Nevertheless, we may discern the inner working of this hocus pocus magic blood ritual yet, providing we continue searching our hearts and our bibles.In one short paragraph, can you present a description of how you may relate this passage, if the need arose, to a fello who is not familiar with blood revenge. Again, drinking the symbolic wine/blood/murder appears to have signified a spiritual decision that each disciple who was willing to choose the potentiality of being murdered, a risk associated with undoing the blood letting of corrupt tradition, would make; that is, if they were to continue the Gospel that HaMashiach was being murdered for blessin' everybody with. Variant traditions lurked 'roun almost every corner waiting to pounce on that message apparently.However, it does not appear to have indicated a magic blood ritual responsible for supplying all sippers a remote chance, much less a promise, of 'eternal life in ghost heaven'. At least, that is not what I am seeing. Those, disciples aside for a moment, who accepted the final end of the previous corrupted priestly traditions would have likely found solace in Mashiach's bloodless Gospel as they moved on from the musty center of a leavened reality to pure grace.Those, my friend, who find Yeshua HaMashiach's Life, in a brighter light than his ghost birth, visits and ascension, may find no less.One Love

Thank you for the exchange brutha jay.
Hope all is well in your camp ... Perhaps a separate thread, hashing out exactly why a new Covenant was being established and further identifying their distinctions, is in order. There is the ministry of HaMashiach and then there is variant traditions after His murder. When the latter is mixed with the former, the Gospel of the Kingdom delivered by Yeshua HaMashiach becomes a bloody mess. It certainly does! We know 'shedding his blood' equates to murder. 'Forgiveness of sins' seemingly equates to a tactic of evading wages, considering, as we are told, 'the wages of sin is death'. So, Yeshua had to be murdered in order that others may evade those who paid them their wages. Who was in charge of the followers of Yuhdaism's wages in first century? Corrupted traditions.Yeshua was murdered to make straight the paths of corrupted traditions. If he chose not to submit to Abba Father, the traditions of innocent bloodletting would have most certainly been continued in Yuhdaism. However, due to submission, they were discontinued and within a very short time at that.It appears, however, that they were indeed resurrected by poli-religious wannabe-levite pranksters on the prowl for the Fat o' the Land™ and continual Shedding of Innocent Blood™ towards the latter quadrant of the fourth century, and so, the deadly corrupted traditions were seemingly dusted off, repacked and finally injected into the remnant of variant messianic traditions which had become corralled into one another within 'the christ' of Rome.It just seems like, where HaMashiach of the Father gives us real Life, 'the christ' of Rome gives us ghost heaven and I am not much concerned with ghost heaven as of late - lol. One should not have too much on their plate and I'm still tryin' to work out the Law and the Prophets. Maybe when they are fulfilled, then I'll have a bit of time to look into that supposed ghost heaven stuff a little more. We'll see. Within the freely flown term 'forgiveness', one may identify with a sense of pure beginnings and new traditions, and in that sense, I highly agree. You think the Father would undo you for one sin?I can't even believe you there for one second. lol - what a wonderfully ambiguous saying. Yet, more specifically ...A lil' teshuva & enumah, gifted by HaMashiach of the Father, and a baptism in the river (of life), performed in the fashion of HaMashiach and the Prophets, has thankfully cleansed my sins the same way it did theirs; there seems to be little reason to expect it cannot cleanse anyone else's, considering the Father is not a respecter of persons and all.btw, you don't honestly consider that the Father may color the Judgement for anybody, do you?One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : sp.

Thanks for the exchange brutha jay.
Hope things are well with you ... You know that's right. btw, this fyi may help identify the platform on which I rest. HaMashiach, our leader, seems to defer His veneration. Yet, I give to the Father what is His. In this Way, Yeshua is my friend and brother. I worship the Father though. Only. 1 Sure enough seems that way - lol Also, perhaps, to remember Him in the context of a first century landscape is to remember the struggle against incorporated dogma. Although, I must agree with you, Yeshua HaMashiach's triumphant entrance into humanity, in the form of uncorrupted and unspeckled ToRaH, is quite a thing to remember. That may, perhaps, be an inclusion to many, many years worth of loyal practitioners diligently Speaking the Word of Truth found within, and out, the Law and the Prophets. lol - almost as if they spoke that ToRaH ben HaMashiach right into existence, them lil' rascals did ... To the right of the throne, but yea ... also, one may ultimately consider Yeshua HaMashiach the first example of the next blessed species of sapien.That, kinda, seems to be the deal, no? It may follow that each species of mankind has become more refined than its predecessor. What say ye? Considering exclusivity truly has no bearing, does the popular term 'believers in Christ' seem a bit presumptuous?After all, in that Triumphant Day, the appearance is that many of those who labored under false pretense must, before mercy, endure disappointment.Ahhh ... nevertheless. The First Fruits of a New Creation. I must admit, I'm a lil' taken back by so many who have yet to discern the biblical evolution of mankind, considering that these texts begin to express in exactly what way mankind will evolve into another form of being. It just seems as though, once one begins to identify and understand the various properties assigned and associated within evolution, it may become difficult to consider that a similar mechanism is not continuously at work where our our matter meets The Mind.Perhaps, those who tickle each other's ears and repeat falsifications about the Father's tinkering habits (creationists, etc.), and in the 'name o' god' at that, simply encourage others, who may be still unawares of the Father's love for them yet, to distrust even their Father, and so, HaMashiach too. There is a sense that once the children of the Father finally take initiative in curbing their fantasies and, as difficult as it seems at times, begin being honest, this Family's gonna have an awesome reunion. Yet, thankfully, we are blessed enough to be here, on earth, right now!One LoveEdited by Bailey, : grammar

Thank you for the exchange purpledawn.
Hope things are well in your camp ... A lamb maintained value in Yisrael's economy and is consistently symbolized as innocence and purity in scripture texts.Sin is the fruit of a defiled religion and an offence towards the Father's humanity. Yeshua is the Anointed One.So, Yeshua the Anointed One, innocent and pure, takes away the defiled traditions of the world.In a not-so seemingly ironic twist of fate, after Yeshua adamantly refuses to promote atonement for sins through the letting of blood and is, hence, venemously murdered, various usurpers then attempt to re-establish the destructive and corrupted tradition that, according to Yirmiyahu before Him, became tightly associated with a popular and defiled form of Judaism from days of old even until first century CE, which involved ...Sacraficing innocence/wealth to pardon sin/corruption. What did it do? It instilled guilt and fear within the masses and created wealth and abundance among (self?) proclaimed priests with too much ink on hand.This ancient defiled tradition comes down to us in popular form through Levitical Catholics. Yet, if the Father viewed this as an unacceptable mentality to interweave through jewish traditions, it should reasonably follow that it is equally untolerable for a Roman tradition (Imperial Christianity) or any other.Somehow, the idea that promotes blood revenge murder, and even of 'God in the flesh' at times, does not seem troublesome to many who cling to religion.That seems to be pure unadulerated craziness - lolOne LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : grammar

Thanks for the exchange purpledawn.
Hope things are well in your camp ... It seems that one's interpretation concerning the 'taking away' of 'the sins of the world' may heavily dictate any potentially useful determinations that the passage may have to offer. I agree with your assessment and if the lack of response on green's behalf is any indicator, he does too. As was previously mentioned, and I think we have agreed, the 'Lamb of God' represents the value of innocence and purity.However, it certainly does not appear to symbolize the value of unjust murder or the value of dodging accountability from sin, blatant or otherwise.At least, that is not what I am seeing. That just seems like more veal parmesan. You appear spot on once again my friend. There seems to be a separate issue, as well, where Peg's reference involves dead animal blood and the depiction of HaMashiach by the author of John seems to denote, at a time when He is not yet bloody or dead mind you, the symbolization of 'The Lamb o' God' as a Living Being who establishes New Traditions that lead to Continuous Life.This, as you have begun to show, is in stark contrast to smearing dead animal blood on a post in an attempt to escape one's judgement or fate. It may be worth noting that the day after Yochan is depicted as first making this declaration, he again points it out to a pair of his own disciples who were gathered as Yeshua was passing through.They are depicted as following Yeshua, as a response to Yochan's testimony, at which point Yeshua quickly addresses them and their motives.One may do well to try and remember that Yochan and His crew were not attached to the predominant monarchial traditions that, while promoting blood revenge techniques, had eventually formed and come to settle within Yisrael and Yuhdea. The reader learns that these two disciples are curious where He stays and when HaMashiach invites them to discover the location for themselves first hand, they do oblige.These Immersers, too, were leftist radicals who denounced magical blood atonement concepts. I do not mean to oversimplify this, yet ... things may finally boil down to whether or not one feels the Father desires sacrafice in the first place, or even, at all. According to various religious incorporations, mercy is insufficient, and only 'a perfect sacrafice' can make amends.According to HaToRaH, as interpreted through the Prophets, the Father desires mercy, not sacrafice.You know where I hedge my bets.One Love

Thank you for the exchange brutha jay.
Hope things are well my friend. We should do well to agree that any influence afforded through HaSaTaN is, first, accomplished in thoughts.Our words form our heart. Our hearts birth our thoughts. Our thoughts give way to deeds.In this way, we are all HaSaTaN, as we all have thoughts not yet captive to Love.Fair 'nuf? Again, to keep things in context, it seems important to note that Yeshua was specifically addressing religious leaders. Not everybody. This should not be a surprise, as this is what Prophets always did.Yeshua HaMashiach referred to the acting government officials of Yuhdaism, which would be the 'church' & 'state', as 'serpents' and 'broods o' vipers' that may not know how to 'escape the judgment of Gehinom'.Fair 'nuf? Interesting. If I was to philosophize with you, I may suggest that the symbolism of Numbers, when the Israelites were bitten by poisoness serpents that had gathered all around the surrounding landscape and, to be healed from those snake bites, one had to look upon the brass serpent lifted on the pole, indicates that all the practitioners of the various Yuhdaic sects, in the time of Yeshua, were being bitten by the acting government officials of Yuhdea who are symbolized as 'serpents' and 'broods o' vipers'.When the infected practitioners, who were burdened by the rigors and deceit of the sacrificial system which had been implemented, look upon Yeshua - the bronze serpent - as HaMashiach, it equates to the infected human absorbing HaMachiach's message of 'mercy, not sacrafice', which then alleviates the threat of doom without sacrifice, hence, bringing relief to the practitioners within the tradition.What do you think? Again, the verses you choose to support the filthy pig doctrine seem to apply to religious leaders, not necessarily practitioners of the traditions themselves.Do you have any verses where Yeshua or His disciples cast these descriptions towards the masses or simply the ones you've provided that speak to the priestly castes? If by 'these people', you mean those who refer to themselves as 'Pastor' or 'Rabbi', I would likely agree. It seems that the ones who need to born again are the ones who were sacrificed, by malignant priests, to venomous serpentine lies. Everyone, idk?At this point, if I was to make a comment in context, I may suppose that a person who has been bit by a priest that claims God desires a sacrificial system may do well to look upon Yeshua as the 'bronze serpent' and understand that the Father desires mercy, not sacrifice. What say ye, brutha jay?One Love

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange brutha jay.
Hope things are good with you ...I have noticed that you hang the majority of your interpretations on Paul's coat hook ...Uncle Paul's semi-narcissistic, while mildly apocalyptic, views may appear to salvage a Prophetic belief in the Father's power and justice, yet, there is the sense that this is accomplished by one shifting the focus of their religious attention from the community as the primary beneficiary of the Father's justice in this life, who may be rewarded with shalom, peace and prosperity, to the individual, who will receive his or her just reward in an afterlife. That does not seem to be a tradition that everyone can identify with and I, for one, am often unable to find practicality in Pauline dogmas and theology.I will try to respond accordingly ... It seems that the message behind HaMashiach's interpretation of ToRaH was that one must adjust their thoughts, before they can address their deeds. Yeshua clearly admonishes within His tradition that, 'The things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a person'. Yes, I would agree that it seems like warring was very deeply embedded within the 'members' of Paul's 'flesh', aka. human appendages, although, as well, his thoughts too. Assuming he was right handed, that is where the bulk of his warring was dispatched from his heart and mind, as he pummeled to death, or held the coats of those who did, many who were unwilling, like the angry traditionalists who requested the responsibility clearly refused by Pilate, to claim the innocent blood of Yeshua's venemous murder upon themselves and their children.

quote:

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When Pilate saw that he could do nothing ... he took some water, washed his hands before the crowd and said ...

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I am innocent of this man’s blood. You take care of it yourselves!

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In reply all the people [happy about murdering HaMashiach] said ...

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Let his blood be on us and on our children !!

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So, the deeds of the murderous traditions claimed Yeshua's innocent blood, first, with their very own words.Remember brutha Yacov's wise words as well ...

quote:

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3:5 ~ The tongue is a small part of the body, yet it has great pretensions. Think how small a flame sets a huge forest ablaze.

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3:6 ~ And the tongue is a fire! The tongue represents the world of wrongdoing among the parts of our bodies.

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It pollutes the entire body and sets fire to the course of human existence — and is set on fire by Gehinom.

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3:7 ~ For every kind of animal, bird, reptile, and sea creature is subdued and has been subdued by humankind.

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3:8 ~ But no human being can subdue the tongue; it is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

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4:1 ~ Where do the conflicts and where do the quarrels among you come from?

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Is it not from this, from your passions that battle inside you?

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Judas words also comes to mind, while contrasting the dynamics of these SaTaNiC thoughts and deeds, when he is depicted as saying ...'I have sinned by betraying innocent blood !!'That is all the time I have for now.Off to enjoy time with the fam ...I'll try to respond mo', later.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange brutha jay.
Hope things are well with you ... lol - now, now ...I never said that I would not ol' friend. However, the doctrines and subsequent theologies which must continue to evolve from the remains of uncle Paul's letters have always been highly subjective and their volatility often remains unpredictable. Consider Kefa's very own words in the verse you quoted ...Some things in these letters are hard to understand ...

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Things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures. So, uncle Paul's letters are frequently inclined to misinterpretation according to even the Apostle Kefa. There is the sense one may understand them more clearly with some extensive formal training in the original testament Yuhdaic traditions, such as the pretense they were written under. Honestly, the Father has provided the Prophetic booklets for our admonishment, which are often overshadowed by the corruptions given to poor ol' Paul's militaristic world view.It is all but obvious that brutha Kefa is aware of a certain tendency afforded to uncle Paul's scriptures by those unlearned, wherein the Pharisidic letters are used to support the doctrine of Yeshua as a Levitical animal sacrifice. Now, while every scripture is inspired by the Father and useful for learning, for reproof, for correction and training in the Anointing, I received no specific command to draw from the writings of either Kefa or Paul. Perhaps you did.Nevertheless, Yeshua admonishes us - not brutha Kefa or uncle Paul - what literature will serve His disciples well as far as HaMashiach is concerned. Within the few Gospels selected for compilation into the Roman scripture text collection, Yeshua refers to three parts of the TaNaKh by name - the Torah (Law), the Nevi'im (Prophets) and the Tehellim (Psalms).Now, if Yeshua HaMashiach recommended the wisdom of such literature, I am truly at a loss why you may choose to perform otherwise.Yet, as surely as I say to you, from the beginning, towards the middle and in the end, Mashiach's must answer to their One teacher.

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Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

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For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

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In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

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Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?

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He said to him ...

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You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

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This is the greatest and first commandment.

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And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

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On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

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The law and the prophets were in effect until Yochan came; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone tries to enter it by force.

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But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter in the law to be dropped.

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Then he said to them ...

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These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you - that everything written about me in the law of Moses', the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.

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One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have condemned the innocent; why trust what I say when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary