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Author
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Topic: If the Bible is metaphorical then perhaps so is the God of the Bible
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 11 of 243 (509549)
05-22-2009 11:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 10 by CarlinKnew
05-22-2009 10:12 AM
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CarlinKnew writes: how do Christians decide which parts of the Bible are true? By choosing whatever fits into their worldview or the dogma of the particular church they are an adherent to. There is no rhyme or reason. They will claim that things are self-evident, but I still have yet to have a christian adequately explain what is "truth" and what is metaphor. I keep on getting the same old tired argument that if I believed I would know, or that I just don't want to know. They act like I am the one with the problem if I do not take things on "faith". Whose faith am I supposed to accept anyway?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-22-2009 10:12 AM | | CarlinKnew has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by CarlinKnew, posted 05-22-2009 11:42 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 28 of 243 (509770)
05-24-2009 8:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by kbertsche
05-24-2009 6:59 PM
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This field of study is called "hermeneutics" (i.e. biblical interpretation). Proper interpretation requires historical, grammatical, and cultural study of the passage in question. In other words it is entirely subjective.
Descriptions of the appearances of Christ after His resurrection seem to indicate a real, literal resurrection. Why? But I do like that you use the caveat, "seem".
Paul says that without the resurrection our faith is in vain. Because Paul says this, the resurrection must be true? It is still picking and choosing. There is no real world evidence for the vast majority of the bible, and no extra biblical, contemporary evidence for anything to do with Jesus.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by kbertsche, posted 05-24-2009 6:59 PM | | kbertsche has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by kbertsche, posted 05-24-2009 9:47 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 32 of 243 (509777)
05-24-2009 11:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 30 by kbertsche
05-24-2009 9:47 PM
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Absolutely not. My explanation that "proper interpretation requires historical, grammatical, and cultural study of the passage in question" implies the opposite. Hermeneutics has a scholarly, objective basis. Please show how an interpretation is objective. It is based upon an interpretation so by virtue of that it is subjective. You will never know what the original intent was and you can not say that any of it is based upon a real historical incident, therefore it is subjective.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by kbertsche, posted 05-24-2009 9:47 PM | | kbertsche has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 78 of 243 (509982)
05-26-2009 2:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 72 by jaywill
05-26-2009 1:16 PM
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Re: Descendants of the Planet
quote:
How would you explain miracles done by God then? How would you explain the suspension of the forces of nature or its laws in the instances when God performed a miracle?
Easy one for me. They never happened. There is no evidence of any miracle. No evidence for anything supernatural. You can make this claim, but there is no evidence to back it up. All there is is a collection of writings or dubious origins. Nothing else.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by jaywill, posted 05-26-2009 1:16 PM | | jaywill has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 100 of 243 (510083)
05-27-2009 9:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 95 by Peg
05-27-2009 5:20 AM
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Re: Adam and Eve Story
quote:
huntard writes: What he means is that the source material for the "Priestly" source of Genesis (as opposed to the Deuteronomy, Elohim and Jehova sources) was of a later date then 848-722BCE. Peg writes: Wellhausen! I cant believe his theories are still around let alone accepted.
Anything to back this up or just another bare assertion?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by Peg, posted 05-27-2009 5:20 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 101 of 243 (510084)
05-27-2009 9:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 98 by Peg
05-27-2009 6:49 AM
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Re: A msg for Carlinknew
quote:
Is it reasonable to apply all these apparent 'literary' rules to a writer?
Yes it is called literary criticism. It is actually a quite respected field of study.
quote:
Would you read the books of someone like John Milton who wrote in various styles (poetry-political) and assume that because the style varies so much, he must not have been the only writer?
Google it. Lots of people have done it.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by Peg, posted 05-27-2009 6:49 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 111 by Peg, posted 05-28-2009 5:15 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 119 of 243 (510164)
05-28-2009 8:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 111 by Peg
05-28-2009 5:15 AM
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Re: A msg for Carlinknew
Its not uncommon for 1 writer to use different styles of writing, so why do critics us this as a basis for claiming that Moses was not the only writer of the books attributed to him? Not usually in alternating passages or interspersed within one work.I was really hoping you would read a little about literary criticism before you continued on this line of argument. Just because you refuse to understand something does not make it wrong.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Peg, posted 05-28-2009 5:15 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 120 of 243 (510166)
05-28-2009 8:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 117 by jaywill
05-28-2009 7:38 AM
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Re: Apostles of Christ
The Bible exposes Satan and makes him naked to the light of truth. What you are doing is acting on behalf of Satan, rushing to cover him up and hide him in obscurity. I just have to tell you bluntly what's going on. You are doing the service of Satan, trying to hide Satan and rescue Satan from being exposed. A more effective Bible Study with the serpent himself could hardly do a better job to obscure the plain truth. OH. Now everyone that disagrees with you is in league with Satan? That is an effective debating tool. Is this the jaywill corollary to Godwin's Law? Edited by Theodoric, : Question mark
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by jaywill, posted 05-28-2009 7:38 AM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 187 by jaywill, posted 06-14-2009 8:32 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 188 of 243 (512133)
06-14-2009 2:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 187 by jaywill
06-14-2009 8:32 AM
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Re: Apostles of Christ
I just have to tell you bluntly what's going on. You are doing the service of Satan, trying to hide Satan and rescue Satan from being exposed. To even make such a comment seems ludicrous and beyond the pale.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 187 by jaywill, posted 06-14-2009 8:32 AM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 189 by jaywill, posted 06-15-2009 11:48 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 190 of 243 (512245)
06-15-2009 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 189 by jaywill
06-15-2009 11:48 AM
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Re: Apostles of Christ
In my eyes it is all just radical christianist propaganda. By telling someone that are doing the work of satan, is to tell them you think they are immoral and evil. Hardly behaviour for a discussion board.
Maybe it was not decorous to a sterile intellectual game - ie. a supposedly friendly game of "Bible Ball". This may come as a shock to you. But the Bible does not exist simply as an intellectual curiosity. This book was not developed over 1600 years simply to tickle some people's intellectual curiosity Your beliefs. For a large group of us it is nothing more than an intellectual curiosity. There are for more appropriate places on the web to spout christianist preaching.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 189 by jaywill, posted 06-15-2009 11:48 AM | | jaywill has replied |
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