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Author | Topic: Evidence for Intelligent Design-is there any? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Mr Jack: DNA is not software.
Hacking the Mother Code | WIRED Hacking the Mother Code "The gene is by far the most sophisticated program around." - Bill Gates, quoted in Business Week, June 27, 1994 Google you way to better understanding....
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Mr Jack: Probably. But I do know enough about it to understand that talking about "DNA software" being "read" by "bio-machinery" is a massive mischaractarisation of how DNA and the associated systems actually work. More importantly, so what if we do? There's nothing about complexity that speaks against evolution. TONY: When you fully understand depth of what DNA is and does, and can do. Then and only then can you let go of the old and stupid stand-by - nature-didit (non-intelligent evolution)
Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.
"Of course the programming language is DNA and its machine code runs all life on this planet". Why Genetic Engineering is a Computer Hacker's Problem Sooty Solutions: Consulting to Business Managers on Information Technology and Security
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
bluegenes: Your "complexity" arguments seem to rely on a strange view that you are in a simple universe, so that when you observe complexity, you claim, without evidence, that it requires external intelligent interference. Next time you see something complex, consider the obvious; that it's evidence of a complex universe. TONY: Just as life has fully automated design structures for self-republication. So to the universe have similar abilities, only by design though. I just read an article on different kinds of Entropy.Gravity Entropy where things come together rather then flow apart. There is so much to learn and so like time to live life to learn it all.
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Old- TONY: 2# Your dogmatic belief system is blinding your eyes from seeing the evidence is all around us - so clearly exposed.
bluegenes: If you understood the arguments that I'm making to you, you would know that there's no dogmatic belief system involved. I'm pointing out that the complex phenomenon of intelligence must be able to exist without requiring intelligent engineers. That means that creator Gods can exist without requiring engineers, and that intelligence and other complex phenomena could be produced in this universe without engineers. It is your argument that intelligence (a complex phenomenon) is a prerequisite for the existence of complex phenomena which is nonsensical because of its obvious inbuilt contradiction. Surely you understand this. TONY: You got a couple of logic loops here.First (1#) God is not intelligently designed. Not physical, not functioning on physical laws to exist. Has an existence out side of his own handy work. He does not living in the fish bowl he himself made for the little fishes. Duh. Man is a creation. All our functions can be explained right down to the simplest molecular laws of quantum physics. And so can this computer on my desk.
"If all things are equal, then they are but the same"- TONY Quantum physics does not have mythical concepts of designs just happen (nature didit -theory)
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Percy First, unless you're in the habit of handing out your account name and password to family and friends or have it posted somewhere on the Internet, or until you forget how to use the quoting codes, I think you can safely assume we know that "TONY" wrote this. TONY: One forum I was on required it all the time. They even deleted your posts if you forgot. So forgive me - bad habits die hard, the scares still remain from their many beatings.(joke) Edited by Bio-molecularTony, : new title
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Percy: You're making the same type of mistake. You're noting that DNA possesses some of the qualities of software and then concluding that it must therefore have all the qualities of software. In reality, DNA has the qualities it is observed to have. It is an error of the first order to conclude it must have qualities of other things that it is similar to. TONY: God is more intelligent then we are so the DNA programming is MORE able they anything we can come close too. It is more then just software - to use a primitive "man made it" analogy is my now mistake. It is what they call an understatement. Not an overextending analogies as you would have it.
Hacking the Mother Code | WIRED Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online. Message 2Message 3 Message 7 http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=...\1 ma·chine 2 a : a living organism or one of its functional systems -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tech·nol·o·gy 1 a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a particular area : ENGINEERING 2 b : a capability given by the practical application of knowledge 2 : a manner of accomplishing a task especially using technical processes, methods, or knowledge 3 : the specialized
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Percy: The argument goes like this: ID would like to have it both ways. When explaining why life must be designed, IDists draw analogies to human designs. When explaining why life is too wondrous to have happened naturally they describe how far beyond human comprehension the complexity of life is. So which is it? Is life something we could design ourselves, or is it far beyond our meager talents. TONY: If I remember correctly each cell has 100 trillion atoms, and the body has 100 trillion cells. So you'll be long dead before you finish what ever you planned to start. Human DNA has 3.2 billion base pairs, and it's going to be a while just for one person to learn all that to get up to speed.The engineering physics of human structural design is still over our little heads. It is though a new technology - To try a little intelligent designing our selves. Oh but that might be impossible for it does not exist, Hehehehe. :-/
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
onifre: "how can you determine any of this to begin with?" Racing cars are easy to make, untill you have to make one to win the race. Life (cells) look so easy that some would have you think even nature could do it. Till you learn what is being done right now in bio-labs arould the world you will not understand what we have here. Life is the GREATEST TECHNOLOGY we have ever seen. They are stipping it down and coping it, redesigning its functions. Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online. A new version of a biomolecular computer Edited by Bio-molecularTony, : New title
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Percy:
- These two paragraphs are all just a bunch of unsupported assertions and more arguing by analogy fallacies, but your frequent references to God do manage to make very clear the religious nature of ID, which has been our point all along, that ID is religion, not science. - If life's processes really involved elements of the supernatural then man couldn't analyze, understand and modify them, could he. TONY: Rules, rules, rules. You've got it so well planned out, that you have made sure there can not be any valid answer to intelligent design now or ever. Even reading your posts I find there are so much I NOW can't even answer because its off topic, your about to get pissed off for not getting replies on them. You've made evidence no longer valid because your story book says there is OTHER POSSIBLITIES that CAN HAPPEN. This is a lie. Supernatural (superior then man) information coded that functions as good or better then our crappy software is now not good enough for you because if we understand it then it can't be from God. So your mind is closed to accepting any and all EVIDENCE. You have a dumb answer for everything, so as to dumb down even the GREATEST TECHNOLOGY man has ever seen. I can your going places, duh. It is you that needs to get in line. If you can't understand what superior technology is and what it means then your not good time spent. If you wish to dumb down everything that comes your way, you become the "dumb critic" with the over size month, but little brains to speak of. I can see what you’re doing here. Evidence is not your issue. You’re just a political filibuster - your just here to shut down the discussion so it can never be fruitful. Nothing will ever be good enough for a (blind evolution) filibuster.
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Mr Jack Youtube? You think I should go to Youtube to learn about how DNA functions? Youtube? Seriously? TONY: Today my time is better spent making money.Your time would be better spent learning more of the greatest TECHNOLOGY man has ever seen. Photosystem IIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfV060N27g&feature=related From: ndsuvirtualcellJoined: 3 months ago Videos: 12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Photosynthesis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj_WKgnL6MI&feature=related Photosynthesis05:04 From: ndsuvirtualcell Views: 2,768 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- photosynthesis (Cool) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=birYa_F0ivk&feature=related photosynthesis04:06 From: FourDocsMLP Views: 15,683 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Plants: Photosynthesis (Britannica.com)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBfx3OcXS6A&feature=related
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
RAZD: Curiously Bill Gates (a) is not a biologist and (b) does not understand the genetic code. This is an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy.
There are many biotech companies out there looking for funding, and to get it they must justify it. You can bet the sales pitch to Bill Gates was very impressive. So much so he was quoted as saying "The gene is by far the most sophisticated program around." Many do get funding for further research just because it is just down his ally. I stand by my quote because I know more then you do about the background of this man and his funding.
RAZD: Here you repeat the same fallacy. Curiously, you also do not show any evidence that "you fully understand depth of what DNA is and does, and can do" (italic for empHAsis), nor do you demonstrate any way that DNA operates that is not done by nature. I do understand for I have been researching this subject for some time now. This is not my first forum. I go back 8 or more years debating and reading much on this subject. It is you that has not read my books and done my research. You judge me by YOUR LOWLY knowledge on the subject. The rules would probably have objections to all those quotes. And since I am not God who-didit what I say in my own word would not qualify as anything in your eyes. Demonstrate what? And risk being bad from the forum too. I knew you had some master plan to get me cut down some how. :-o
RAZD: Great. Now explain how gravity and entropy affect biological life functions. Demonstrate how entropy is a sign of design (what is it - planned obsolescence?) Is the fact that all orbits decay a design feature? Do you know how to distinguish design from the apperance of design caused by natural actions according to natural laws? Is a snow flake designed? Leave that one for another time. It's late and I'm not going there tonight.
RAZD: This is an ad hominem another logical fallacy,
I don't go there any more. It turns into a free for all rip and tare contest. Calling every little thing a fallacy can go both ways and the topic then goes no where.
Curiously this is called the logical fallacy of special pleading, and strangely the fact that you plead for your god to be excluded from design means that -- logically -- anything else can be excluded from design. I'll pass, I don't talk logical fallacies - waste of logic and time. nitpicking.
This is just an assertion. Curiously if "All our functions can be explained right down to the simplest molecular laws of quantum physics" then we have a complete natural explanation for how life operates and we do not need a supernatural explanation. How does this demonstrate a creator is necessary? If man makes a car - does it then require a supernatural explanation? Is man then supernatural creator? None of the quantum laws were violated in man creating the car, so are we still in need of a supernatural explanation. Without seeing the man create the car, can there ever be evidence it is not natural? Edited by Bio-molecularTony, : grammer correction
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Mr Jack: Once again: I don't go to Youtube to learn Science.
You’re not interested in LEARNING what INTELLIGET DESIGNERS can do with intelligent DNA software, so go way and stop wasting my time. If you have the mentality that NOTHING SHOULD be GOOD ENOUGH to prove God has creations to see, test, examine, record. Then it is like throwing pearls to swine (bible quote). A waste of time. You just can't make swine happy even if you gave the worlds supple of gold and silver, yes even pearls. If you heart is wicked your eye will be dark. Spirituality does put me at an advantage over you. But that’s another story for another time ... maybe if it were not a waste of my time. Edited by Bio-molecularTony, : spelling corrections
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
Percy: If life's processes really involved elements of the supernatural then man couldn't analyze, understand and modify them, could he. Sounds so logical . but it is for the purpose of blinding ones own eyes so as not to eye what can be seen. The spirit realm what would fit into this logic, and yet by this logic you will never really know for sure, because you can never really know anything at all. Intelligent people create simple and basic things more often then highly complex things. Man is simple, too simple. Man is not alive, but a machine designed to think he is. If this is true, I win you lose. For I am debating with a stupid machine that imagines it is a living creature, which exists in an illusion of reality so cleverly disguised as REAL. God has that made a fool out of all of you. The so call great debators lose by default for they are themselves not real persons, but artificial illusions of "LIFE", imagining there is no creator in there darkened minds. The joke is on you... it is you that does not really exist (As living) creations. All so-called life is technology - artificial - machinery.What, you can't see it. That's too bad...... Edited by Bio-molecularTony, : No reason given.
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
At best you’re a creation of a lower life form then God.
And at best your just one of the simple things made by God on the low end of the "FOOD CHAIN".... Hehehe.
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Bio-molecularTony Member (Idle past 5408 days) Posts: 90 Joined: |
b00tleg: So, is there evidence that supports ID....scientific evidence per chance? TONY: I keeping giving you the evidence, peppered with common sense, and your religious background views keep getting in the way of seeing the light. The cell is(superhuman technology) bio-manufacturing machinery designed at the molecular level. The DNA programming (More superhuman Technology) has built right in to the software programming a sample of the kind of intelligence the creator has for designing artificial intelligent automated machinery. All that is lacking is you - for all this to click into that head of yours. To understand what we got here and what can be done with it. Here is superhuman technology staring you in the face (you looking at yourself in the morning) and all you need do is to understand is this is THE GREATEST TECHNOLOGY MAN HAS EVER SEEN.
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