Atheism Examined

Why does anything have to make sense?.Because he did not know my God does not mean he is anything other than Adolf Hitler. If what I believe turns out to be correct He will face my God one day and pay for his actions. If I am wrong he has nothing to worry about.

That's a good point. Hitler deified the Reich and the Volk. That makes him a theist, whether he believed in the Catholic God or not.And it makes him very similar to other theists who have no personal meaning, who depend on an external source for meaning. It illustrates the danger of not owning your meaning.

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What is a theist?

A theist believes in a God or gods - i.e. some entitiy "greater" than humanity. As I said, Hitler deified the Reich and the Volk, placing them above "ordinary" humans.(Don't be trapped into thinking that only the personification of a "higher ideal" can be a god.)

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I can't say anything for nj. I can only imagine that he is like me. I have never NOT been a fan of God. To not be a fan is to not know God. The problem as I see it is in not knowing, versus not caring. I did at times not care. I thought I was better than that and self-enabled. What I ask is that, in the same way you tell him he was not an atheist...can you honestly say you were christian? If he didnt do what you feel atheists do, and you didnt do what he feels christians do, were any of us ever anything before? Are we predetermined to be what we are, in spite of what we proclaim or grow up with? I see that he does not think you understand theism, that you don't think he understands atheism, but both of you claim to have been on the other side. Is this not some arrogance? Is this true? Can you say you were christian? And if so, can't he say he was atheist, despite what that word means to you? I understand. If you dont believe you dont sweat the past, the mistakes, etc. I wish I could be that way, and not regret my past. It is weird. If I stopped believing in God, I wouldnt have regrets like I do. That is where people think atheists dont have morals. They think that life would be sweet and painfree without God. I understand in a way. I didnt choose to be Catholic per se. My mother chose for me, and I follow the evidence as it goes. This is a contradiction to you, I know. But believe me a long time ago I left off of my mother's catholicism and forged my own path. I would at times rather be Russian Orthodox, or naturalistic, or pantheistic, or other things which have appeal to my human nature. But I cant get a grip on them enough to change my life for the cute little benefits.What I dont like honestly is the moral high ground approach. To me, atheists seem to be lacking in so much of the beauty, tradition, culture, etc, of who they are and who their ancestors are. To you, theists lack the knowledge of who they are as a human being. But I see humans as diverse. I believe every culture has a definition. If you are as a culture which has no god in it, you need to make yourself known. Not as an anti-religion, but as am actual group that can be indentified with. A group that had no god figure, but has its own tradition, its own purpose. You don't need to identify with non belief in some gods, but to make a group of people who think as you do about all gods. Just forget about gods and atheism.

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922There are plenty of quotes like that. As the "Hitler was an atheist" line seems to be popular amongst anti-atheists, I thought I'd lay it to rest on this thread. Anastasia is right that his background was Catholic rather than Protestant, but it could've been either.It may not be your God, ICANT, but it's arguable that every theist has a different, personal God, which means there are billions of them.It seems that entities who exist only in the human mind can have as many personalities as there are minds that believe in them.

Never thought of it that way, ana. As an adult I have never believed in gods of any kind so can't be lapsed.Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

You don't have to anything to be an atheist. An atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of gods.If you hate a god (or resent it, reject it, denounce it), you must believe in it, so a person who hates one or more gods can, by definition, not be an atheist.Imagine I said that I had been a christian, but gave it up, because I discovered that Muhammed had never lived, and thus the quoran was fake.Would you perhaps not conclude that, based on my words, that whatever I was, I was no christian? What does this mean? Why do you think would be sweet and painfree? You still love and fear to lose those you love. You still stub your toes when going to the bathroom at night, you still get letters from the IRS etc.Why do you think having a faith is the only thing that makes you have regrets?/Soren

Someone's already pointed out that communism isn't a person, so what ICANT perhaps means to say is that communists don't believe in God.This isn't actually true. There's a long history of Christian communism. As Christian communism might be straying a bit off topic for a thread examining atheism, I've started a new one called "Was Christ a communist?"I expect some interesting and controversial opinions there.

I agree.But if I claim to be a brain surgeon because I used to kill hogs and make hog head cheese out of their brains, does that make me a brain surgeon? Did Hitler's statement of his feelings make him Christ like?If I go out in my backyard and look on my orange tree I expect to find oranges not apples. By their fruit you shall know them.Folks I am a born again child of the King, but I do not claim to be a Christian. I am working on being a Christian. (opened myself up on this one didn't I).But according to what I am reading on these posts there are many on here that are not atheist but are working on being one. I have nowhere said Hitler was an atheist, I asked a question was religion responsible for his killing 6 million plus Jews and I did not mention the other millions of deaths he was responsible for.No one answered that question so I will. Yes Hitler's religion was responsible for his actions. His God of Might makes Right.I am not anti-atheist as you suggest. I mentioned one atheist friend but I have many. Not believing in my God does not make them any less of a man. I believe every person is entitled to their own beliefs. I may think they are wrong but that does not make it true.

But communists do believe in the God of communism. Communism is a religion, a way of life.

Lets focus on what atheism is rather than on what we as believers are, out of respect to this thread. It may be useful to briefly touch on the contrast, but the topic focus should be on what atheism is and is not.

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I'm not sure about the others you mention, but I'm positive that atheism is not "a way of life". It certainly does not contain beliefs or any practices. At most it contains a single belief, that the God presented by whoever does not exist. Simply disagreeing with a single person, or even a billion people, over one thing is hardly a way of life.As far as I know, it's simply something that a religious person calls me when I do not agree with them.

I am an ex-christian atheist. Ex-Catholic, to be precise. Although I think your questions were more geared towards crashfrog, I'll answer anyway. I wouldn't deny that he thought he was atheist at one point. But regardless, no, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of me ever returning to the church. Or joining any other religion, for that matter. Although I do feel that re-joining the Catholic church (or any sect of Christianity) is highly unlikely. I think, if anything, I'd be more geared towards an eastern philosophy of some sort. I can't really answer this question. I'd like to think "no". But, well, I can't imagine myself going back to christianity. If I did, I would have to lie to myself, or be dishonest with my own thoughts. I do not understand how I could do that, and live with myself. It's not that I think christianity is bad or evil, or that no one should be a part of it. Just that it's not for me, and I don't see how I could reconcile myself with it's beliefs. I suppose, yes. Although, well, this can be said about anything so it's really kind of meaningless and trivial. This is a theme that I constantly think about as I live my life. Anyone can beome whatever they wish (mentally speaking) if they put their minds to it and start making the decisions needed to put them on that path. The first step would be wanting or desiring it.

Heh. I sure am interested in knowing about this "way of life" I am supposed to be living.I'd also like to hear ICANT discuss the common set of beliefs between my left wing atheistic self and my conservative atheistic father.

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Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine