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Author | Topic: The Bible on Sex, Love, and Marriage | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Considering that in Biblical times, women were considered chattel and all marriages were arranged, and many women were taken as spoils of war, I fail to see how Biblical advice on modern relationships is any more relevant than the advice on how to stone to death rebellious children.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Oh really? Upon what do you base this assertion? I mean, athiests and agnostics have a lower divorce rate than strict, born again-type Christians. So, which group do you think is more likely to have realistic expectations? This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-22-2004 09:31 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That's not submission, that's personal support. It's what people give to each other in a relationship. Of course, in an egalitarian relationship, you make big descisions together.
quote: That's kind of sliding into doormat mode, sorry. I want my spouse to be involved in every descision because we are a equal partnership, meaning we each have equal responsibility for the relationship.
quote: I'd feel kind of sorry for someone like that. I mean, loyalty I would expect, but supporting me and reassuring me even though I repeatedly screw up sounds like an enabler or a permissive mother.
quote: I think the world of my spouse; I just don't automatically support everything he does just because he is a male. I would especially resent it if he thought he had the right to simply overrule me when we disagreed about something. It wouldn't matter how much he loved me. He still doesn't have the right to always overrule my will in disagreements. That is a huge sign of disrespect.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
That was, indeed, fun.
However, you didn't actually answer my question. Since why people get married and the status of women in society are both hugely different now, compared to when the marriage rules and guidelines in the bible were writeen 2,000 years ago, why are they relevant now?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I think so, yes.
quote: You don't get it. The fact that he would be making all of the final decisions is, in and of itself, disrespecful.
quote: I am protective of my rights and power as a human being.
quote: I don't want to run the household myself. That's boring. I enjoy my career much more than running my household. The running of our household is something my spouse and I do together out of necessity most of the time.
quote: OK, where does the Bible say anything about wives being inteelectual equals to their husbands. Mostly I seem to recall women having to ask their husbands if they have questions about things. Not the other way around.
quote: See, I have been supporting myself AND my husband for most of the last 12 years while he has been a student. I am responsible for my own welfare, first an foremost. I have agreed to this arrangement because getting his PhD is very important to him, and therefore it is important to me, too. When he graduates, he will most likely get a post doctoral position, at which time our yearly incomes will probably match. After that, he will hopefully get a faculty position and then I will take some time off before looking for a new position or deciding to go back to school myself because he will be making more money. I have a Mormon friend who has a masters degree. She is married to a man who barely made it through high school. She has ten times the earning power that her husband does, but he is the one who works the third shift at some factory, making just a little over minimum wage, and she stays at home with the three kids. Because of their religious convictions, they are having more children than they can afford and are on public assistance at the taxpayer's expense.
quote: Like I said above, just the idea that I would not have the weight in the relationship to make joint descisions with my husband is disrespecful to me on it's face. I don't care how well I was taken care of, gold plated handcuffs are still handcufs.
quote: The thing is, I don't really need to be on my guard. I know my husband views me as completely equal in status to himself, and vice versa. The time to be on guard is in the choosing of a mate.
quote: We don't have a pre-nup. We are working for the best interests of each other, and are answerable to each other for every descision we make.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Does that sound like a good trade to you? It doesn't, to me - it sounds like a betrayal of everything our country, and you, stand for. I think that's what Schraf is getting at - it doesn't matter how much she might benefit from someone else making the final decisions - she still loses so much by not making decisions. quote: ...or change what it means to be married. Where is it written that ALL marriages, everywhere in the entire world, MUST be based upon a certain interpretation of the Christian Bible?
quote: Wrong. The reason the 10 commandments are removed from public property is because public buildings are built using taxpayer money. The prominent display on government buildings of religious doctrine constitutes a clear appearance of endoresement of a particular faith by the government, which is in violation of the Constitution.
quote: Wrong again. There is a great deal of benefit to marriage for a secular couple. Being legally married is a big, real commitment that keeps people together during the more difficult times that all marriages go experience. It is a long, long tradition that makes us feel part of a cultural and family continuum.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: ...or change what it means to be married.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What it means to be married has always been in flux. women used to be chattel, and men could have many wives, like many cattle. Women used to have no legal rights, or only the rights of a child, in marriage or a s human beings. Women used to be completely dependent upon men for their survival. Etcetera.
quote: From my perspective, it means much MORE to be married now, because it is a choice and a commitment to get and stay married rather than something that you do because you are expected to and can't undo. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-25-2004 10:19 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
How long were these couples married before they became unhappy/divorced?
How long did they date/court before getting married? Did they live together before getting married? Were these first marriages for each spouse?
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