Is man inherently good or inherently evil?

Well only if people belive in the concept of Sin - I don't believe in that or your Jesus person.

I do not think true evil exists at all.
I mean how can evil ever be the main goal in any action? People perform actions in order to gain something, be it satisfaction, wealth, respect or what ever. Evil for the sake of itself is absurd, and serves no purpose.It is all just about perspective. Do you think Hitler thought of himself as evil? Or Stalin? They both did what they thought to be necessary and right at the time of their actions, even if those who got hurt from them obviously thought something else.

From your statement, it sounds like the bible is an inkblot test.

Unless, of course, the atheist is right, and there is no god, and no afterlife.

Why yes, I am say that Judaism ripped off other religion. The Ugarltic bible, and the sumarian religion are just two sources.All the various names of God in the Torah are just different gods
in the Ugartic mythology. El was the Lord of Lords. and Yahwey was
titled 'the son of God'.Basically, all the names of god in the Ugartic mythology were assumulated into one with the early Judaism. In the Ugartic mythology,
the consort of Yawhey was Asherea, who is mentioned in 2 kings, when her handmaidens were driven from the temple. The cult of Asherea stayed amoung the rural Jews until the 3rd Century B.C.E, despite the
efforts of the priests to irradicate it.Also, look at the Sumarian myth, the Legend of Sargon, which has some
parrells to the story about Moses being drawn from the water.http://luna.cas.usf.edu/...urray/classes/ah/sargonlegend.htmSargon, the mighty king, king of Agade, am I.
MY mother was a changeling1, my father I knew not.
The brother(s) of my father loved the hills.
My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates.
My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me.
She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed
My lid.
She cast me into the river which rose not (over) me,
The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the
drawer of water.
Akki, the drawer of water lifted me out as he dipped his
e[w]er.
Akki, the drawer of water, [took me] as his son
(and) reared me.
Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener,
While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me (her) love,
And for four and [ ... ] years I exercised kingship,

Everyone is equal.So ,no one needs forgiveness from a 'most high'.

You are right. According to my belief, there are two basic perspectives in life. Egocentric, and Theocentric. If my belief says that all wisdom and truth originate from me, I can pretty much get away with doing whatever I want and declaring that no evil exists. If, on the other hand, I acknowledge a Supreme Being who by definition is the source...not only according to my perspective but everyone elses irregardless of their opinions--than evil is defined as rebellion to this authority. The relativists will challenge my definition of God as an extension of my egocentrism...and what can I say? Theists have always been accused of using religion to justify authority. We would claim the authority that we are justifying as God, The relativists would contend that we are using God as an excuse to exercise our own authority. This is a debate with no formal solution.

I strongly recommend taking a course in philosophy of ethics. If my ethics professor were standing next to you, he'd grab you by the throat and yell into your ear all the moral theories that ever existed until your head begin to ring. That's what he did with us and look what I've become.But seriously, the world of ethics ain't as simple as you think, dude.

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The Laminator
B ULLS HITFor goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

neither. man is inherently stupid. good and evil are social constructs... rules that man has placed on himself. god is being is all and the idea is for man to attain knowledge so that he can be like god.

Darth, I know that the study of ethics gets far more complex than my simplified proposals. Here is a quote concerning virtue ethics and the fundamental attribution error: But what "world" are you talking about? Mans attempts to explain his behavior? My simplistic view suggests that Man cannot explain his behavior because he is unable to focus on a fixed point of reference outside himself except for the study of other humans. If ALL humans have similar traits, no other human can serve as a reference point. That is why Theists focus on God as a point of reference. Only as much as your belief states that humans are the creators of definitions. If the good book was written by the opinions of men, you are right. If the book was written by men inspired by an outside point of reference, you are not right. Thus, our differing points of view.

Phatboy responds to me:

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It is not as simple as Old vs New Testaments.

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Of course. Judaism is more than just the Torah just as Catholicism is more than just the Bible.But you are missing the entire point: To say that a text suddenly means something it was never understood to mean is disingenuous at best. You are suggesting that Jews don't know the theological implications of their own holy work.

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Just because a few of the T.B.N. Christians rant and rave about stuff does not make them mainstream in Christian thought and belief.

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(*chuckle*)Go read the NIV translation of the Bible and then come back to me.

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The Old Testament was written by Jews for Jews, yet all of the stories were not about Jews.

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True, but to imply that it was written with Christ and Christians in mind is just as fallacious.

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Will an atheist go to heaven if he does good works?

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Not any more than a Christian.

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So salvation is by faith.That contradicts Peter, though.

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In other words, you have to believe along with your "good works".

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Misquote. Why didn't you include the stuff that came before?1 Peter 1:17: And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:1:18: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;1:19: But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:1:20: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,1:21: Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.As 1 Peter 1:17 clearly points out, god judges without favoring people. You get your faith by doing good works and through those good works, you gain heaven. You are redeemed by the act of Jesus, not simply the belief in god. If belief were all that was required, then Jews would get to heaven since they believe.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

dpardo responds to me:

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This verse:

1 Peter 1:17: And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear"

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is the one I am claiming is not referencing salvation.

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Again:(*blink!)You did not just say that, did you?What do you think that god is doing as he "judgeth according to every man's work"?You can't divorce this verse from the surrounding ones. The entire book of 1 Peter is all about salvation.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

CHRIS PORTEUS jr avoids my question (by deliberately misquoting me, I might add):

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So everyone is a sinner, so everyone needs forgiveness from the Most High,the Christ.

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Non sequitur. Let's try again, shall we?Will an atheist go to heaven if he does good works?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

ramoss responds to me:

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Unless, of course, the atheist is right, and there is no god, and no afterlife.

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Pascal's Wager.I'm so sorry. You didn't think the god that truly exists was the Christian one, did you? It is possible that both atheists and Christians are wrong, you know.For all we know, god loves the atheists. The Bible is actually a test, you see. God gave humanity judgement, brains, and maturity (I say that any boob can take and shove a ball in a pocket) and then presented the creation a book that was obviously false in order to see what we would do. Would we reject the book that claimed to be the word of god in order to find our own way through the universe, relying upon the gifts we were given? Or would we blindly follow the book simply because it claimed to be the word of god, talking ourselves into thinking we actually heard god tell us it was true?Perhaps god prefers those who think for themselves, even if they wind up being wrong, over those who play it safe and have their lives pre-digested for them.Heck, what if the Bible is actually the work of the devil, designed to corrupt our souls and turn us from the path of god?The choice is not between "god" and "not-god." There is "not-god" and a whole panoply of mutually exclusive definitions of "god."

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Phatboy writes:

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If my belief says that all wisdom and truth originate from me, I can pretty much get away with doing whatever I want and declaring that no evil exists.

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But the mere existence of atheists proves this concept to be a fallacy.Unless you're claiming that atheists have no morality.Are you?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!