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Author Topic:   Is man inherently good or inherently evil?
ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 70 of 271 (143299)
09-20-2004 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
09-20-2004 6:00 AM


Re: Peter, Paul, and Mary..(Well,not Mary)
My my my.
Genesis was compipled by the Jews for the Jews during the timeperiod of the 2 Kings, as was most of the Torah. It is an allegorial story. It was
actually a rip off from the Ugartic creation myth that the pheonicians had, as indeed much of the Torah is. Some of the Torah was 'inspired'
by Sumeritian sources (look at the legend of sargon, and see how the
first 7 lines compares with the birth of Moses.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 09-20-2004 6:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 78 of 271 (143439)
09-20-2004 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
09-16-2004 3:51 AM


Re: Peter, Paul, and Mary..(Well,not Mary)
From your statement, it sounds like the bible is an inkblot test.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 79 of 271 (143466)
09-20-2004 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Rrhain
09-20-2004 2:36 AM


Unless, of course, the atheist is right, and there is no god, and no afterlife.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 80 of 271 (143468)
09-20-2004 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
09-20-2004 12:39 PM


Re: Peter, Paul, and Mary..(Well,not Mary)
Why yes, I am say that Judaism ripped off other religion. The Ugarltic bible, and the sumarian religion are just two sources.
All the various names of God in the Torah are just different gods
in the Ugartic mythology. El was the Lord of Lords. and Yahwey was
titled 'the son of God'.
Basically, all the names of god in the Ugartic mythology were assumulated into one with the early Judaism. In the Ugartic mythology,
the consort of Yawhey was Asherea, who is mentioned in 2 kings, when her handmaidens were driven from the temple. The cult of Asherea stayed amoung the rural Jews until the 3rd Century B.C.E, despite the
efforts of the priests to irradicate it.
Also, look at the Sumarian myth, the Legend of Sargon, which has some
parrells to the story about Moses being drawn from the water.
http://luna.cas.usf.edu/...urray/classes/ah/sargonlegend.htm
Sargon, the mighty king, king of Agade, am I.
MY mother was a changeling1, my father I knew not.
The brother(s) of my father loved the hills.
My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates.
My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me.
She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed
My lid.
She cast me into the river which rose not (over) me,
The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the
drawer of water.
Akki, the drawer of water lifted me out as he dipped his
e[w]er.
Akki, the drawer of water, [took me] as his son
(and) reared me.
Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener,
While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me (her) love,
And for four and [ ... ] years I exercised kingship,

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 81 of 271 (143469)
09-20-2004 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Trump won
09-20-2004 4:45 PM


Everyone is equal.
So ,no one needs forgiveness from a 'most high'.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 169 of 271 (153360)
10-27-2004 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Trump won
09-29-2004 8:33 PM


You do realise there is no secular evidence for any Jesus of Nazareth from before the Jewish revolt in 70 C.E> at all.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 171 of 271 (153372)
10-27-2004 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by riVeRraT
10-27-2004 8:40 AM


Of course, you are misreprenting the Jewish position on Faith and works.
Judaism is a works oriented religion. Plus, in Judism there is no concept of 'salvation' for the afterlife. It is LIFE oriented to the
hear and now.
The laws of the Jews are for the Jews, and how the Jews have decieded to
worship God. They acknowledge that it is not the only path to god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by riVeRraT, posted 10-27-2004 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 201 of 271 (154678)
10-31-2004 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Phat
10-27-2004 11:05 AM


Yes, I am. What objective evidence do you have that it is anything other than a myth?

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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 202 of 271 (154679)
10-31-2004 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by riVeRraT
10-27-2004 12:55 PM


On the contrary.
The misinterpretaitons of CHristians , using bad translations, and pushing pagan myths as well as pagan concepts onto the Jewish religion is irrelavent to the Jewish faith.
The concept of the Messiah is different in Judaism. Jesus also did not met the requirement for the Jewish messiah. ALso, the concept of prophecy is not 'predicting the future' in Judaism either.
You got there major misconceptions in one paragraph about the Jewish religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by riVeRraT, posted 10-27-2004 12:55 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 12:59 AM ramoss has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 203 of 271 (154681)
10-31-2004 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by riVeRraT
10-30-2004 12:23 PM


No, actually it isn't.
I will accept your bigoted statements about Jews is based on your vast ignorance.
He is quite correct though. Jews do not need Jesus. Jesus is irrelavent to the Jews.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by riVeRraT, posted 10-30-2004 12:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Rrhain, posted 10-31-2004 9:46 PM ramoss has replied
 Message 212 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 1:03 AM ramoss has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 204 of 271 (154682)
10-31-2004 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by riVeRraT
10-31-2004 7:26 AM


No one who follows the Jewish faith follows Jesus.
The so called 'Jews for Jesus" or "messanic jews" are southern baptists dressed up to sound jewish. Most of the J4J don't even HAVE Jewish ancestory.

This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 246 of 271 (156184)
11-05-2004 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Rrhain
10-31-2004 9:46 PM


No, in judaism Jesus was not a prophet. The age of prophecy ended at the first disporia.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 247 of 271 (156185)
11-05-2004 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 12:53 AM


You say you focus on what Jesus said.
Where did Jesus say he was 'The only begotten son of god'. (Not what was claimed for him, but what he said)
Where did he say unambiguously say he was god?? (well, words atributed to him at least).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 12:53 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 248 of 271 (156189)
11-05-2004 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 12:59 AM


Assimulation.. the few people in the Jews for Jesus that actually HAVE jewish background generally are people that have not been properly educated. Many of them leave.
Most of the so called 'Jews for Jesus' never grew up in a Jewish household. Many do not even have Jewish ancestory. The ministry is a fraud.
I mean, look at it's board of directors. Look on how many people on the board fo directors are Southern Baptist ministers. Look where the funding for the J4J come from. That should give you an indication of
what it is.. a mask by southern baptists to try to convert the jews.
Yes, some have converted. Others converted, and then left. I also know
several ones that were Christians, went to the J4J, and then dropped then, and converted to Judaism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 12:59 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 249 of 271 (156191)
11-05-2004 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by riVeRraT
11-01-2004 1:03 AM


Well, you know..
For someone to be the Messiah in the Jewish sense, he
1) has to be just a man, decended from the male line from David.
2) Insure that the temple is in Jersualum
3) Become the King of Israel.. without any foreign influence.
4) Make the Torah the center of all the worship of all the world.
5) Insure eternal peace in this world.
DOesn't seem like Jesus did that. The 'potential' messiahs only get one chance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2004 1:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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