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Author | Topic: 2024 US Presidential Election | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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marc9000 in Message 605 writes: If you're saying that it becomes okay to use cruelty to instill fear during difficult economic times, that's something I cannot agree with. There's no excuse for inhumanity. The U.S. doesn't coast along automatically, it takes a lot of effort to keep the lights on, food on the shelves, Social Security payments to be issued. If these and many other things we take for granted suddenly stop, decisions about what's "okay" aren't going to be part of the equation. If we limit discussion to the current situation, do you see anything that would justify cruelty as a strategy for keeping migrants from our borders?
Concerning those who have shown up on our doorstep, what do you think is the proper response? Deportation. For migrants apprehended while attempting to enter the country the term used seems to be expulsion. The Border Patrol is currently expelling over 2 million illegal immigrants each year. If this is all you want then you've already got it.
Centuries ago, England dropped off all their undesirables in Australia. Believe it or not, Australia isn't a bad place now. The U.S. doesn't have an open place like that. Maybe if we drop them all in the middle of Africa, they'd do what the English did in Australia long ago, and use their heads and make Africa a better place. Words fail me.
I'm not sure how to interpret this. On the surface it appears just plain wrong. How can a judge issue a ruling superseding existing law? What do you really mean? If immigration laws are being ignored or broken, (see Mayorkas impeachment) other laws should not be used by one political party to defend or prop up the breaking of those immigration laws. That puts some laws on a higher level than others. Mayorkas is following the same procedures as his predecessors in the Trump administration.
My understanding is that Mayorkas could not possibly have implemented "catch and release" because it already existed before Biden, Trump or even Obama took office. Catch and release - Wikipedia says that "catch and release" refers to a "collection of policies, court precedents, executive actions and federal statutes spanning more than 20 years, cobbled together throughout Democratic and Republican administrations." It also describes how Trump tried and failed to end the policy. I don't think Mayorkas has been doing anything any different than his predecessors in the Trump administration. I can't address that, those words aren't my own. I don't even know what this means. Every response involves addressing what someone else says.
But we have a serious illegal immigration problem - Theodoric is trying to imply that immigration is no worse now than it was during past administrations. I think what Theodoric is trying to get across, indeed what everyone is trying to get you to understand, is that you're mischaracterizing the current situation. Yes, many more migrants are arriving at our borders the last few years, but the way it is being dealt with is little different than under Trump, except without the family separation and the Wait in Mexico. --Percy
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: My Liberal friend (whose sister worked for Biden) claims that a Republican introduced the Trump ban on the Colorado ballot. Crazy world we live in. To be accurate, it was 4 Republicans and 2 unaffiliated petitioners. Per the Supreme Court:
quote:
The Dad voted for Reagan.
Uncle Ronnie would be a RINO today, or perhaps a mainline Democrat. The GOP today is nothing like it was when Ronnie was around. Let's not forget that Ronnie gave amnesty to all illegal immigrants in the country at the time:
quote:
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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marc9000 writes: If immigration laws are being ignored or broken, (see Mayorkas impeachment) There are even Republicans who are saying that the impeachment is silly political games. Rep. Ken Buck has already stated that Mayorkas has broken no laws. You can't name a law he has broken. It's just Republicans doing political grandstanding, the only thing they are capable of doing. Govern? Hell, no. Won't do that.
I can't address that, those words aren't my own. But we have a serious illegal immigration problem And Republicans have already shown they don't want to do anything about it. They would rather have an issue than a solution.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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marc9000 writes: From how the bill was clearly described by Thiessen, it's clear that he failed to represent his party's interests. Yes there's an expectation, and the safety valve is the final vote on it. The safety valve worked. The negotiated bill had wide support until Trump came out against the bill. Trump didn't want Biden to have a win, so the bill was killed. It's that simple. The Republicans want an issue to run on, not a solution. They have calculated that stopping illegal immigration would hurt them in the polls. “Let me tell you, I’m not willing to do too damn much right now to help a Democrat and to help Joe Biden’s approval rating, I will not help the Democrats try to improve this man’s dismal approval ratings. I’m not going to do it." "Why would I help Joe Biden improve his dismal 33 percent, when he can fix the border and secure it on his own? He can secure it on his own through executive order." --Texas Representative Troy Nehls
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9203 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9203 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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Deportation. Centuries ago, England dropped off all their undesirables in Australia. Believe it or not, Australia isn't a bad place now. The U.S. doesn't have an open place like that. Maybe if we drop them all in the middle of Africa, they'd do what the English did in Australia long ago, and use their heads and make Africa a better place.
Wow! The racism, elitism and hate is strong in this one. First of all, these were criminals. People coming to the border are not criminals. Asylum seekers are not criminals. Africa is not an empty place. It has countries and people. Finally, I thought you had your panties in a wad about deficits and wasteful spending. Do you have any idea how much it cost to do this? Do you have any idea how many people were transported to Australia and the time frame? This is all I can deal with. I need to shower the filth off.What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yeah, but he wanted nothing to do with the "peanut gallery". I have read to him some of our discussions. He is far less patient and accepting than I am. He hates Biden. I tolerate Biden. He loves Trump. I do not. He is more one-sided than I am, though Theo sneers that I am an RWNJ. If I lean more to the Right than I do to the Left, I could care less.
I'm as smart as any of you...be you Conservative or Liberal I don't need to play by anyone's rules! I don't need a Trump or a Biden to run my country and I don't need a bunch of wimps. I liked Reagan! He helped end Communism (for a while, anyway) and he took no shit from any tinhorn dictator like Khadafy. He knew which rebels were freedom fighters and which were terrorists. (Sandanistas and Conras, IIRC.) Were I not a compulsive gambler, I would have been as wealthy as any of you guys. In conclusion, I prefer to indirectly quote talking points from both my Conservative friend Joe and my progressive friend Chris. (Occasionally) Now...what were we talking about again? Edited by Phat, .
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: I'm as smart as any of you...be you Conservative or Liberal I don't need to play by anyone's rules! I don't need a Trump or a Biden to run my country and I don't need a bunch of wimps. I liked Reagan! He helped end Communism (for a while, anyway) and he took no shit from any tinhorn dictator like Khadafy. He knew which rebels were freedom fires and which were terrorists. (Sandanistas and Conras, IIRC.) Well, there was that whole Iran-Contra thing. They also helped arm Saddam Hussein. So they gave weapons to both Iraq and Iran which means that both sides were shooting at each other with weapons supplied by the US through the Reagan administration. A bit odd that.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9203 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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His campaign worked with the Iranian ayatollahs to hold the hostages until Reagan was in office.
Reagan Campaign Revealed to Done a Deal to Delay Iranian Hostage Release What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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Phat writes: I'm as smart as any of you.. the apparent consensus here is that the evidence does not agree with this conclusion. Maybe me, but not everybody. Many here are smarter than me."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9203 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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I post here because I am constantly learning. Many people here are smarter than I am. I have a very narrow focus of knowledge and in that I cannot claim expertise. All I can claim is competence.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I read that!
It sounds believable too. Carter was a better moral president than Reagan, but the fact was that our economy was hurting during Carter's years and it would takea Republican to make America Esquire: I wouldn't be surprised if the Trump campaign makes some sort of deal with Mexico to allow people into the United States until Trump can campaign again on the "big beautiful wall" schpiel and take credit for the bill he recently had the party reject. (so Biden doesn't get the credit) Politics is a dirty business.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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marc9000 writes: Keep in mind that right after WWII, the U.S. owned 65% of the world's known gold directly and had its allies store another 25% (roughly...I don't have the data) of their gold in the New York Federal Reserve. Thanks to Bretton Woods, the entire global financial system was backed by the United States dollar, which was itself backed by gold. Here is my source:
Growing the economy is largely impossible today because of the Democrat's war on oil. Biden constantly brags about his job creation, but we don't hear much about what percentage of those jobs are in the private sector, versus new government jobs that often don't result in any real productivity. Nixon Ends Convertibility of U.S. Dollars to Gold and Announces Wage/Price Controls In 1974, the dollar, needing stability, was then backed (again) by a hard asset...oil. The petrodollar carried the country through the eighties, nineties, and even past the infamous 9-11. Fast forward to the Ukraine War. Note what now has happened.
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Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Phat in Message 622 writes: I'm as smart as any of you... Confidence is inversely proportional to knowledge. Dunning-Kruger. Given your confidence, I would worry. Here's a nice graph that you won't understand, so be confident:
...be you Conservative or Liberal I don't need to play by anyone's rules! I don't need a Trump or a Biden to run my country and I don't need a bunch of wimps. I liked Reagan! He helped end Communism (for a while, anyway) and he took no shit from any tinhorn dictator like Khadafy. He knew which rebels were freedom fighters and which were terrorists. (Sandanistas and Conras, IIRC.) Mindless bluster works against you. --Percy
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5
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Phat writes: I'm as smart as any of you...be you Conservative or Liberal I don't need to play by anyone's rules! I sympathize: in a world of experts, it's tough to navigate with an independent perspective. It is necessary to devise a way to evaluate the conclusions of folks who know more than you do. If we could settle issues by measuring IQs, instead of dicks, we could boast our IQs over our hearts, then just find the name tag with the highest number, and follow it. Alas, that person boasting a stratospheric IQ may be a fool. That brilliant industrialist may be led to the idiocy of fascism with a potent mix of bigotry, rhetoric and emotionalism, to cite one contemporaneous example (Musk) which echos the past (Ford). History is littered with geniuses who believed the most appalling idiocies. Once you pass the bar of normal human intelligence, already an impressive force, one's level of native intelligence is less telling than training in critical thinking, applied with rigor and discipline. And of course you play by other people's rules. That's just silly."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads." Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
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