Christianity Is Broken, but Can Be Fixed

A harmonious community won't need all the goods that people seem to need to pack their lives with to make up for the lack of harmonious community. If the demand fell off then the need to develop ever more goods to entice us into 'happiness' would reduce significantly I imagineEvC without disharmony. A half life of hours...

YEC: I can't say I know enough about science to have a educated opinion one way or the otherDoM: I read around the Defense of Marriage website. I didn't see anything particularily bigotted or oppressive in it - unless of course I was to assume the "gay-rights" position as being the correct one. The language seemed defend a reasonablly supportable biblical view on marraige. They don't seem to incite hatred or oppression or intolerance in a general sense - just no marraige for gays. If gay behaviour is offensive to God then it's unlikely that gay marriage would fair much better.SM (sic): I couldn't find the Salvation Movement. Googling brought up Islamic websites. If you mean that "only Christians (as defined by what the bible says they are) go to heaven then it is an exclusive stance. But if that is indeed the way it is then it matters not how people view it. Intolerant? If that means there is only one way and the criteria are what they are and are immoveable then again it matters not. If it is indeed by one way a person is saved, then "intolerant" and "exclusive" it will of course be. But there is nothing wrong with that if that's the way God ordained itPraiZZZ DU LORRRID: "The presentation of Christianity as proclaimed by televangelists and pulpit is of hate, despair and destruction". I'm not that familiar with them here. If I presume you don't mean that they sound like Defense of Marriage folk (which I don't from the website see a problem with) but mean the proclamations of the likes of Pat Robertson (going on some wild things Schraf quoted him as saying) then I would ask "How do you know he's a Christian?" (that term being used in the sense of what the bible says a saved person is).This message has been edited by iano, 18-Nov-2005 01:43 PM

The first part of this was answered better by Jar than I could have answered.That last question is the point of this whole thread.

I waited a little while to answer this one, but I need to address it: I'd like to be very clear that I do not in any way hope or want to unite with you. You are a product and a promoter of the Christianity I am calling broken. That Christianity leads to the sort of deserved censure and denunciation that it receives regularly on this web site, as well as in so many other places.Unfortunately, this denunciation gets directed toward Christ. He seems powerless to produce what he claimed to be able to produce, because the Christianity you promote seems powerless to anyone who looks at it.I very much want to call that Christianity a farce being perpetrated by people who want to use Christ's name and call themselves his disciples, but really aren't the least bit interested in the requirements he set forth to be a disciple.To become a disciple of Christ is to be attached to a live wire from heaven. It is a mandatorily, unavoidably life-changing decision. Things begin to happen to that person, to everyone, every time. It's noticeable and visible, and those that become disciples either change in response to that power, or they are eventually cast out by the divine vinedresser.That's how it works when it's real. When it's not like that, people ought to say, "Either something's very wrong here, or all this is fake and a terrible joke."But as long as you promote a system which defames God's Christ, I really don't want to do anything that will promote unity with you or make it look like I'm in any way affiliated with you.Catholic Scientist said I look like a jerk in this thread. So be it. In some cases, that's unavoidable.

Then they're very well-hidden, because I've sure looked, and I've talked to others who've looked. The only ones saying anything like this are living in a dream world. I, at least, am convinced it's imaginary. Barna stats can be found at Barna Group - Knowledge to navigate a changing world . He gives stats for the general public, for all those who claim to be Christian, for a smaller group that he classifies as born again based on certain answers to questions, and an even stricter classification of evangelicals, who meet his definitions of a true believer.None of those groups produce unusual statistics on things like divorce, teen pregnancy, abortion, etc. In fact, pastors tend to have the highest stats in those areas, including having the least friends. I don't want to condemn such, since pastors have a very rough career, if they're really in it for God. They have to fill their role, give to people all the time with almost no emotional support, plus juggle all the contradictions and problems of modern Christianity with their beliefs. Very difficult.

That's perfect. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.And I'm trying to say that the only way it will change is if people go, "Something is badly wrong, what do we have to do differently?"Of course, I'm also trying to say there is a solution. There really is a power to be tapped into, in the faith of Christ, that would produce something powerfully different.

All technological advances haven't come about to promoting happiness.Communication
Medical
TransportationJust because a community is harmonious doesn't mean they don't need a means of food preservation, making clothing, heating the home, surgery, hearing aids, etc.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

While your clarifications were excellent, and your help is appreciated, I have to point out that it's possible I'm (we're) not excluded from your list here."The Salvation movement is one of exclusion and intolerance."I don't believe that I am intolerant, or that Rose Creek Village, of which I am a part, is intolerant. However, we do exclude on purpose, and we do believe in salvation.I believe one major necessity in returning to a faith that works and is powerful is for there to be an inside and an outside. Y'shua once said, "To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to those that are outside, all things are done in parables."So, this isn't any sort of defense or argument. I'm simply pointing out that besides CS thinking I look like a jerk in this thread, I'm sure we'd be listed at least among the exclusive in some people's eyes.

jar [qs]TL is saying that Christianity has failed if

as a body, they do not inspire you.

you would not want your kids to behave as the Christian children do.

if you would not want to be more like them.

if as a teacher, you did not wish all your kids paid as much attention or tried as hard as the Christian kids.

if you did not wish they were your neighbors.

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Are you saying that Christians fail to do these things or that they somehow believe society expects these criteria of them?

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First off groups never inspire me though individuals might.

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Second my kids behave exactly as christian kids do as muslim kids do as jewish kids do since they are kids so I fail to see where that one is going.{But I am thick in the head so be patient}

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Third I have never wanted to be like someone else because the fact is unless you are married to someone{and even then sometimes} you do not know who they are. You only know the face they present to you.

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Next I am puzzled here because I do not know that any so called group of kids pays as much attention or tries as hard as any other. Perhaps you could clarify this for me.

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And last of all neighbours are an overrated bunch of people anyway. They are often obnoxious or gossip incessently and once you get to know them will actually try to be friendly to you. I am too much of a grump to be so harrassed. I would be more content with a wilderness around me and friends who dropped in from time to time to share stories of themselves and not vacuous small talk about other people and their lifestyles.

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TL would like to see you so impressed by someone that you need to find out how they did it.

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LOL
I am never impressed by the group but by the individual. If you wish to impress then you have already made an error in judgement as I see it. Impressions are not a goal but a result. Bruce Lee made mention of this in a book of his called Tao of Jeet Kune Do.
When you involve the mind in the impression you are trying to make rather than on the action you are trying to accomplish then you have lost both.

Bruce Lee writes:

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It is indeed difficult to see the situation simply,our minds are vey complex,and it is easy to teach one to be skillful, but it is difficult to teach them their own attitude

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This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2005-11-18 08:01 AM

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But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

I agree I agree I agree I agree although the extent it will be will vary from person to person. So when is the magic line crossed. 100% reponse 90% reponse 80, 70, 60? Let me ask you 2 questions Truthlover:Do you sin?
What is done with that sin when you sin?

I'm saying that Christianity as a whole fails miserably to do those things. Absolutely. And for Christianity to succeed, we need to produce a whole series of individuals, each one of which so inspires you that you begin to wonder how they do it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Amen.

To the 2 questions: Those who say they do not sin make God a liar, and God is faithful and just to forgive our sins if we walk in the light, as he is in the light.However, this initial question about the percentages is where your problem really lies with what I'm saying, and with what Scripture says. It is unthinkable to you that there is such a line, or that God might actually have to judge according to works like the Scriptures say over and over and over that he does.I don't know what to tell you except that God really is a judge like the Scriptures say, and a just one unlike anything you say. And as far as where the line is, he doesn't tell you or me, but he does tell us to be afraid lest we fall on the wrong side of it.I know you don't believe or like the Scriptures that say those things, but that doesn't make them untrue or unclear.

wander up to chat.Thanks. I hope I'm not getting too involved here.I really do believe that things are simple; not easy but simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

"Kind, loving and tolerant at the same time"Quite...