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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 421 of 445 (895909)
07-24-2022 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by nwr
07-24-2022 2:45 PM


Re: Verification through experience
nwr writes:
Perhaps you should explain because I don't see anything racist in Theodoric's post.
Perhaps I overreacted.
you are seriously misunderstanding what ringo writes.
Sometimes I seriously misunderstand what I write,also.
My last post is more in line with the world I live in.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by nwr, posted 07-24-2022 2:45 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by nwr, posted 07-24-2022 3:16 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20948
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 422 of 445 (895910)
07-24-2022 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
07-24-2022 1:59 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Phat writes:
Your response indicates that you are as racist as I am charged to be.
What Theodoric said was, "Why do you reopen topics just so you can get your racist, entitled white ass thumped again? Some sort of persecution complex?" Could you take us through the reasoning you used to conclude this somehow reveals Theodoric is as racist as you?
FYI I usually like to push liberal buttons around here but my behavior in no way mirrors my actual life---not that any of you would know (or care).
Are you saying that you've been behaving badly here just to get a rise out of us? That's despicable. Is there anything you do or believe that is remotely Christian?
I am aware of the whole theory of White Privilege but am appalled that you feel allowed to vilify the white race for such an event in History.
Theodoric said nothing remotely like this. What post are you responding to?
ringo, ignoring his belief that the Bible is merely a product of man and that God and Jesus never existed, still tries to pin me down with my own supposed belief.
Ringo is only making clear that Christians do not live by what they believe are the actual words of Jesus. The reason the supposedly perfect Jesus makes demands that would be devastating on all economic levels is because he never made them. They're just words the Bible's authors put in his mouth.
Basically, we all are arguing in circles.
We're arguing in circles because you keep restarting discussions from scratch.
It would be insulting, by the way, to be a "Christian beggar" and be forced to rely on unbelievers to get fed. Not that the Bible doesn't suggest this as a good scenario.
At every turn you reveal your negative attitudes toward "others" and your rejection of what the Bible says.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 07-24-2022 1:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6036
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 423 of 445 (895911)
07-24-2022 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Phat
07-24-2022 2:57 PM


Re: Verification through experience
My last post is more in line with the world I live in.
I do not have an easy answer to the homeless issue. Perhaps there are no easy answers.
Our world today is very different from the world at the time of Jesus. We have changed the world in many ways. But perhaps some of our changes are harmful to some people.
Here's a news item that I saw this morning:
‘The beaches belong to the people’: inside Puerto Rico’s anti-gentrification protests
That's about a development project that might be creating homelessness in Puerto Rico. Perhaps when we try to change the world, we should think more about those who will not benefit from the changes.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 07-24-2022 2:57 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by Theodoric, posted 07-25-2022 11:31 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20948
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 424 of 445 (895912)
07-24-2022 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Phat
07-24-2022 2:15 PM


Re: Jesus Saves...Moses Invests
Phat writes:
While trying not to lump (or stereotype) ALL of these homeless as being the same, I will say that the facts indicate a majority of them are hooked on Fentanyl or Meth...among the percentage that commits crimes against property (and person).
Can you point us to these facts? Are loitering and sleeping in public places among the crimes you're counting?
It says a lot about you that when your employer's profitability is threatened by crime and the homeless that you abandon all Christian sensibilities and endorse cruel solutions like encampment sweeps and justify it by making up stories about what horrible people the homeless are, that many are drugged up while committing many crimes.
Homelessness is a difficult problem. Communities employing punitive solutions will end up fighting homelessness forever because it doesn't address the underlying problem. Homelessness rises and falls with prevailing economic conditions, but it's always with us. Real solutions that make a difference like providing actual housing (not homeless shelters), childcare, transportation, training and jobs are expensive, but that's what it will take.
But these are the kind of the solutions that people like you seem to hate most because of their cost. When governments use tax revenues to help the homeless too much they complain that government is stealing their money and has become authoritarian. They cite their philosophy of self reliance and boast how they succeeded by virtue of their hard work. They describe the homeless as possessing all manner of negative traits such as laziness, shiftlessness, immorality, lack of motivation, and on and on. They don't consider the possibility that people become homeless through a combination of circumstances that include environmental factors and ill fortune.
Here's an example. A child grows up in the system, a long series of foster homes. At age 18 they leave foster care and have to make their own way with whatever they learned in high school. There's no job in a parent's business, no trade school, and certainly not college. This is not a recipe for success. Adults who come through the foster care system are four times more likely to end up homeless. This isn't their fault. This is the fault of a system that has failed them. Foster children have many fewer of the advantages that other children have.
But foster kids are just the most obvious of many examples of how homelessness happens. Mental illness does play a role in some homelessness, but most homeless do not want to be homeless and worked tirelessly to avoid it, but much of the country works paycheck to paycheck, and things like unemployment, illness and rising rents can throw a major monkey wrench into one's plans.
The homeless living out on the street are people just like you who didn't have many of your advantages, one major one being bequeathed a wholly paid for apartment. Were it not for that my bet is that there's a good chance you'd be out on the street with the rest of the homeless that you detest so much.
--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Phat, posted 07-24-2022 2:15 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Theodoric, posted 07-25-2022 11:34 AM Percy has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 425 of 445 (895914)
07-25-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
07-24-2022 1:59 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Your response indicates that you are as racist as I am charged to be.
Please explain.
vilify the white race for such an event in History.
I do not see how I vilified the white race. I vilified you. What event? You should know I have also been a huge recipient of white privilege in my life. It exists. Look around.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 07-24-2022 1:59 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 426 of 445 (895915)
07-25-2022 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by nwr
07-24-2022 3:16 PM


Re: Verification through experience
The Puerto Rico beach issue is very interesting. It is a manifestation of people power. The people of Puerto Rico have little to no political power. Any law or election in Puerto Rico can(it happens) be overturned by the US Congress and US Agencies. Because of this US corporations are the real political power in Puerto Rico. This is a way the people can express power. I have family members hitting the beach for these protests. Yes, Phat even though I am Puerto Rican I am still white.
It will be interesting to see where it leads. It may be the spark. Maybe from this, we can get true determination of the status of Puerto Rico.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by nwr, posted 07-24-2022 3:16 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 427 of 445 (895916)
07-25-2022 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 424 by Percy
07-24-2022 4:07 PM


Re: Jesus Saves...Moses Invests
one major one being bequeathed a wholly paid for apartment.
What is this? Phat has a free place to live?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Percy, posted 07-24-2022 4:07 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by Percy, posted 07-25-2022 11:52 AM Theodoric has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 428 of 445 (895917)
07-25-2022 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
07-24-2022 1:59 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Phat writes:
It would be insulting, by the way, to be a "Christian beggar" and be forced to rely on unbelievers to get fed.
You still don't get it.
Unbelievers have nothing to do with it. Jesus' point was to trust God to take care of you. The early Church relied on each other not on outsiders.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 07-24-2022 1:59 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20948
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 429 of 445 (895919)
07-25-2022 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 427 by Theodoric
07-25-2022 11:34 AM


Re: Jesus Saves...Moses Invests
Theodoric writes:
What is this? Phat has a free place to live?
My understanding is that Phat inherited his mother's fully paid for condo. I'm sure there are condo fees and taxes.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Theodoric, posted 07-25-2022 11:34 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Theodoric, posted 07-25-2022 6:43 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 430 of 445 (895920)
07-25-2022 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Phat
07-24-2022 2:15 PM


Re: Jesus Saves...Moses Invests
Phat writes:
Trust me....
Never.
Phat writes:
My workplace, a grocery store, is directly one block off of the Colfax corridor.
I don't live in "the hood" but I can see the hood from my window. We have people every day scavenging the recycling bins and garbage bins for cans, bottles and other useful items. (The amount of good stuff that people throw away is horrifying.)
I have mentioned the place I used to work that is reducing security to save money. A block away, there is a branch of my bank where I used to stop at the ATM on my way home (around a quarter to midnight). One night there was a guy sleeping in the lobby (which is open 24/7). I thought twice about walking past him with a fistful of cash but I didn't assume he would rob me if he woke up.
Phat writes:
Ringos argument that *some* of the early church were obedient to give all that they had...
Don't try to blunt my argument. I have never suggested that only "some" of them obeyed. I have pointed out that the ones who didn't obey were killed. That seems like a pretty direct response from God.
Phat writes:
... was in a different time and context...
Isn't Jesus supposed to be the same yesterday, today and forever? (Hebrews 13:8)
Phat writes:
... ...it would literally wreck the economy if all who claimed to be Christian did it now ...
We're not talking about people who "claim" to be Christian. We're talking about the people who are Christian. The ones who parrot, "Lord! Lord!" are already condemned.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Phat, posted 07-24-2022 2:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 431 of 445 (895922)
07-25-2022 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by Percy
07-25-2022 11:52 AM


White entitlement
He is the poster child. How dare he criticize the homeless and the poor. Classic entitled christian POS.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Percy, posted 07-25-2022 11:52 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 07-25-2022 11:50 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 432 of 445 (895924)
07-25-2022 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by Theodoric
07-25-2022 6:43 PM


Re: White entitlement
Let's get in each other's personal business, Mr.Fuentes.
First of all, I am NOT criticizing the poor. At worst, I am critical of theft and am glad that we are now allowed to check cameras and defend ourselves to a limited degree. That being said, I have come a long way towards empathyfor the poor....even the thieves. Most of the thieves *ARE* on drugs...we can see them tweaking as they leave, and some go into our restrooms to shoot up. That does NOT mean that I hate them.
And how dare you all accuse me of being entitled? I paid the payments on my apartment long before I inherited it. Yes, I am privileged as are you, Brian.
My only gripe is with a system that would raise taxes on the middle working class in order to help the lower class...while ignoring the theft at the top.
Yes, we are entitled. We all need humility. But we also need effective leaders who don't keep raising the debt ceiling to pay for projects that will have ALL of us owing for the rest of our lives.
I don't fully trust the global financial system.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Theodoric, posted 07-25-2022 6:43 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Theodoric, posted 07-26-2022 9:11 AM Phat has replied
 Message 436 by ringo, posted 07-26-2022 11:47 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 440 by Percy, posted 07-27-2022 11:05 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 433 of 445 (895930)
07-26-2022 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
07-25-2022 11:50 PM


Re: White entitlement
Trying to intimidate me by showing that you can search the internet and determine my real name. I figured there was some sort of forum rule about that, but if you want to play that game I can play it. What next? Are you going to dox me? BTW my name is not Brian.
First of all, I am NOT criticizing the poor.
Yeah you are.
And how dare you all accuse me of being entitled? I paid the payments on my apartment long before I inherited it.
The vast majority of people you criticize inherited nothing.
Yes, I am privileged as are you, Brian.
Probably. In different ways.
This is part of my privilege. In 1966 my father got a job in Scranton, PA. We were living near my maternal grandparents in MA at the time. In 1960 my parents moved there from NYC as they already had one child and another on the way and wanted a better life for their kids. My maternal family was stoic lower middle-class New Englanders.
When we moved to PA my parents could not find a place to live. At one point my parents were talking to a rental agent who told them they would like one area because they don't allow "n!$$qf$ and spics". Finally, they found someone that would rent to them. The house was located in the premier school district in the area. That is my privilege, because of hate and discrimination and the fact I am white I received an excellent education. That is my privilege.
If you want to continue to dox me? Go right ahead. We will see where the chips lay. Crawl back under your rock.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 07-25-2022 11:50 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 434 by Phat, posted 07-26-2022 9:54 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16055
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 434 of 445 (895931)
07-26-2022 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 433 by Theodoric
07-26-2022 9:11 AM


Re: White entitlement
Thanks for replying to me civilly. I do not want to stalk or dox you (whatever that means and apologize for it. I was just mad that you somehow knew that I had inherited my condo. It really went outside the protocol of EvC.
I am not a wealthy man, apart from my home being paid for, and I still have homeowner fees where I live, so I need to keep working until I get (hopefully) Social Security and Medicare. I have no real money saved up that would last me through retirement so ironically I will be depending totally and wholly on the government.
It scares me and this is one reason I keep researching the solvency of the United States. I worry about the future for all of us but it likely comes across that I selfishly only worry about myself. I'm working on that one. My Home is a modest one-bedroom and as Percy suggests, keeps me from being homeless myself. I have a lot of health issues and would die very quickly were I out there.
I vent on this forum about shoplifters because it really irritates all of us at work.
We have to work for everything we have and the impression (I get)is that a small segment of the population feels that shoplifting is their solution and even a right or necessity. That being said, I have learned not to hate or despise those who for whatever reason keep doing the same thing.
If a man or woman comes and takes a few sandwiches or some food, it does not bother me. I empathize with their plight. It is the ones (repeatedly...we know some of them by sight) who take $200.00 or more a pop. That's more than we make since we see them several times a week. I feel that the answer I get around here (EvC) is that it is Republican policies that are to blame. This is too simplistic of an answer for me.
This topic is Conversations with God, and I can honestly say that I have had a lot of one-way conversations as I age and struggle with health issues.
What I get is that I should listen more.
But then again, were I homeless, I don't really know what I would actually do to survive. Death would be preferable in my case.

Edited by Phat, : fixed my punctuation and what I really wanted to say


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Theodoric, posted 07-26-2022 9:11 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by nwr, posted 07-26-2022 10:43 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 437 by Theodoric, posted 07-26-2022 1:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 438 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-26-2022 5:02 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 439 by dwise1, posted 07-26-2022 7:23 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 441 by Percy, posted 07-27-2022 11:41 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 445 by Percy, posted 08-01-2022 8:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6036
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(4)
Message 435 of 445 (895934)
07-26-2022 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 434 by Phat
07-26-2022 9:54 AM


Re: White entitlement
I was just mad that you somehow knew that I had inherited my condo.
I'm pretty sure that you told us that in a post at evcforum. Maybe you should be mad at yourself.
It scares me and this is one reason I keep researching the solvency of the United States.
Honestly, just stop voting for Republicans. They are the ones who are itching to steal what's in the Social Security Trust fund.
I vent on this forum about shoplifters because it really irritates all of us at work.
You depend on insulin. Have you noticed how overpriced that is? Is that overpricing a form of theft?
Why get so excited about the few dollars stolen by poor folk, when the very rich are ripping of billions at a time?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Phat, posted 07-26-2022 9:54 AM Phat has not replied

  
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