Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,919 Year: 4,176/9,624 Month: 1,047/974 Week: 6/368 Day: 6/11 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   My "Beef" With Atheists
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 80 of 123 (483016)
09-19-2008 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Syamsu
09-19-2008 3:01 PM


Syamsu writes:
quote:
Right, so you have no paper then, which is ofcourse because there is no love-o-meter, it's all pretend-science.
(*sigh*)
Are you trying to tell us that though you are capable of using a browser, finding this site, creating an account, and posting messages, you have still been unable to figure out how to use a search engine?
And after six years of being on this site, you still have never heard of PubMed?
Turk Psikiyatri Derg. 2008 Fall;19(3):300-9.
[Sex differences in sexual versus emotional jealousy: evolutionary approach and recent discussions.]
[Article in Turkish]
Demirta Madran HA.
PMID: 18791883 [PubMed - in process]
Sex differences in jealousy have been reported widely in the social psychological, clinical psychological, psychiatric, and anthropological literature. Many of the studies conducted on jealousy have focused on the sex differences in the level of reported jealousy. Most research has reported that there is no difference between men and women regarding the level of reported jealousy, but there are some sex differences between sexual and emotional jealousy. Evolutionary psychologists divide jealousy into 2 dimensions based on their observations and empirical research findings: Sexual jealousy and emotional jealousy. Sexual jealousy is knowing or suspecting that one's partners has had sexual relationship with a third person, whereas emotional jealousy is triggered by partner's emotional involvement with and/or love for another person. The parental investment model, which extended Darwin's explanations of sexual selection, provides a useful theoretical framework for studying sexual and emotional jealousy. According to this model sexual selection is driven by differential parental investment by men and women; men should experience more sexual jealousy than women and women should experience more emotional jealousy than men. Considerable research has focused on testing this hypothesis and, with a few exceptions, the results are generally consistent with the evolutionary account. In this study, firstly, a brief definition of the sexual and emotional jealousy will be given. Then, sex differences in sexual and emotional jealousy will be explained according to the evolutionary theory. Finally, the results of empirical studies and critiques of the evolutionary model will be given.
Prague Med Rep. 2007;108(4):297-305.
Endocrine factors of pair bonding.
Stárka L.
Institute of Endocrinology, Prague, Czech Republic. lstarka@endo.cz
PMID: 18780641 [PubMed - in process]
Throughout literature--fiction and poetry, fine arts and music--falling in love and enjoying romantic love plays a central role. While several psychosocial conceptions of pair attachment consider the participation of hormones, human endocrinology has dealt with this theme only marginally. According to some authors in addictology, falling in love shows some signs of hormonal response to stressors with changes in dopamine and serotonin signalling and neurotrophin (transforming growth factor b) concentration. Endorphins, oxytocin and vasopressin may play a role during the later phases of love. However, proof of hormonal events associated with love in humans has, until recently, been lacking.
Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2004 Aug;29(7):931-6.
Hormonal changes when falling in love.
Marazziti D, Canale D.
Dipartimento di Psichiatria, Neurobiologia, Farmacologia e Biotecnologie, University of Pisa, via Roma, 67, 56100 Pisa, Italy. dmarazzi@psico.med.unipi.it
PMID: 15177709 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
To fall in love is the first step in pair formation in humans and is a complex process which only recently has become the object of neuroscientific investigation. The little information available in this field prompted us to measure the levels of some pituitary, adrenal and gonadal hormones in a group of 24 subjects of both sexes who had recently (within the previous six months) fallen in love, and to compare them with those of 24 subjects who were single or were part of a long-lasting relationship. The following hormones were evaluated by means of standard techniques: FSH, LH, estradiol, progesterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS), cortisol, testosterone and androstenedione. The results showed that estradiol, progesterone, DHEAS and androstenedione levels did not differ between the groups and were within the normal ranges. Cortisol levels were significantly higher amongst those subjects who had recently fallen in love, as compared with those who had not. FSH and testosterone levels were lower in men in love, while women of the same group presented higher testosterone levels. All hormonal differences were eliminated when the subjects were re-tested from 12 to 24 months later. The increased cortisol and low FSH levels are suggestive of the "stressful" and arousing conditions associated with the initiation of a social contact. The changes of testosterone concentrations, which varied in opposite directions in the two sexes, may reflect changes in behavioural and/or temperamental traits which have yet to be clarified. In conclusion, the findings of the present study would indicate that to fall in love provokes transient hormonal changes some of which seem to be specific to each sex.
FEBS Lett. 2007 Jun 12;581(14):2580-6. Epub 2007 May 8.
From affiliative behaviors to romantic feelings: a role of nanopeptides.
Debiec J.
Department of Psychiatry, New York University School of Medicine, New York, NY 10016, USA. jacek@cns.nyu.edu
PMID: 17507012 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Love is one of the most desired experiences. The quest for understanding human bonds, especially love, was traditionally a domain of the humanities. Recent developments in biological sciences yield new insights into the mechanisms underlying the formation and maintenance of human relationships. Animal models of reproductive behaviors, mother-infant attachment and pair bonding complemented by human studies reveal neuroendocrine foundations of prosocial behaviors and emotions. Amongst various identified neurotransmitters and modulators, which control affiliative behaviors, the particular role of nanopeptides has been indicated. New studies suggest that these chemicals are not only involved in regulating bonding processes in animals but also contribute to generating positive social attitudes and feelings in humans.
FEBS Lett. 2007 Jun 12;581(14):2575-9. Epub 2007 May 8.
The neurobiology of love.
Zeki S.
University College, Department of Anatomy, London, UK. zeki.pa@ucl.ac.uk
PMID: 17531984 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Romantic and maternal love are highly rewarding experiences. Both are linked to the perpetuation of the species and therefore have a closely linked biological function of crucial evolutionary importance. The newly developed ability to study the neural correlates of subjective mental states with brain imaging techniques has allowed neurobiologists to learn something about the neural bases of both romantic and maternal love. Both types of attachment activate regions specific to each, as well as overlapping regions in the brain's reward system that coincide with areas rich in oxytocin and vasopressin receptors. Both deactivate a common set of regions associated with negative emotions, social judgment and 'mentalizing' that is, the assessment of other people's intentions and emotions. Human attachment seems therefore to employ a push-pull mechanism that overcomes social distance by deactivating networks used for critical social assessment and negative emotions, while it bonds individuals through the involvement of the reward circuitry, explaining the power of love to motivate and exhilarate. Yet the biological study of love, and especially romantic love, must go beyond and look for biological insights that can be derived from studying the world literature of love, and thus bring the output of the humanities into its orbit.
And that was with literally less than one minute's worth of searching.
If you aren't going to be bothered to do your homework....
Edited by Rrhain, : No reason given.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Syamsu, posted 09-19-2008 3:01 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Syamsu, posted 09-19-2008 7:09 PM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 85 of 123 (483074)
09-19-2008 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Syamsu
09-19-2008 7:09 PM


Syamsu responds to me:
quote:
Those papers are by art of reasonable judgement, don't you understand anything?
Non sequitur. Please rephrase.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Syamsu, posted 09-19-2008 7:09 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Syamsu, posted 09-20-2008 5:20 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 89 of 123 (483220)
09-20-2008 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Syamsu
09-20-2008 5:20 AM


Syamsu writes:
quote:
To assert jealousy and such as objective statements of fact, means they are material things or processes, so that the spiritual realm is empty
But you just said science claims love doesn't exist. Now you're going full force along the claim that science does claim love exists.
Which is it?
quote:
therefore it is atheistic.
Huh? When was it decided that emotions were supernatural?
quote:
Everybody knows it is wrong to objectify things such as love or jealousy
But if we can study it and do so in a "reasonable" way, to use your term, what makes it "wrong"? "There are some things man was simply not meant to know"?
quote:
Usually the pretend-scientists begin by talking how complex love is, about trillions of possible interactions.
You didn't read any of the studies I provided, did you? Having refused to do your homework before, you're going to continue to refuse to do it now.
Where in the studies I provided do you find anything of the sort?
Be specific.
quote:
But the shroud of complexity is just because the scientists know that the moment they define it precisely, people are going to reject their science.
Strange...people have been "rejecting science" for as long as science has been around because they don't like the results. Need I remind you that people were burned at the stake for daring to say that the earth went around the sun?
Where do you get this idea that scientists are chicken?
quote:
I think this also may explain why scientists and sciencefans are generally not normal, and lack emotion.
Ah, yes. The last refuge of the incompetent. When you can't defend your argument, lash out at the one that showed you wrong.
That's Richard Feynman. Arguably one of the greatest physicists of the modern era (the one singing, on the right). And while we're on the subject of Feynman, I highly recommend you picking a copy of Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! It has a good description of what inspires scientists.
To claim that scientists are without emotion is simply to show that you know nothing of scientists.
quote:
In the seventies there was this big parasitical movement, where regular people invested meaning in words such as love and jealousy, and an intellectual selfsuperior upperclass which used up the meaning invested in those words by regular people. In the eighties this meaning was already used up, the party was over, and since then intellectuals have been searching for fresh blood in the shape of exotic cultures to parasite meaning from. Instead universities should enforce the rule not to speak about what ought and ought not more strictly.
Non sequitur. Please rephrase.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Syamsu, posted 09-20-2008 5:20 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 91 of 123 (483224)
09-20-2008 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Syamsu
09-20-2008 7:36 PM


Syamsu writes:
quote:
First you get the good people to invest meaning in a word like love, subjectively, then you get the bad people who parasite that meaning by for instance equating love with sex, objectifying love.
You didn't read the papers that were cited for you, did you? They make a big distinction between sexual and emotional relationships.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Syamsu, posted 09-20-2008 7:36 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Syamsu, posted 09-21-2008 10:19 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 96 of 123 (483520)
09-22-2008 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Syamsu
09-21-2008 4:52 PM


Syamsu writes:
quote:
Your science about love seems to leave the spiritual realm empty
As I asked you directly once before:
When was it determined that love was supernatural?
quote:
You dont have a sentience meter just as you dont have a love-o-meter
Except we do. You've seen the latter. Now it is your job to do your homework and look up the former.
Report back with specific studies, citations from the articles, and their bibliographic information.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Syamsu, posted 09-21-2008 4:52 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Syamsu, posted 09-24-2008 4:34 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 99 of 123 (483757)
09-24-2008 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Syamsu
09-24-2008 4:34 AM


Syamsu responds to me:
quote:
No you don't have a sentience meter since i've seen top physics scientists comment on how physics is more essentially like psychology.
I'll need the names, dates, places, and full quotes in complete context of these people. Otherwise, I claim you're just making it up.
quote:
Also the theory of psychologist Jung is based on pan-psychism, that sentience is everywhere.
Huh? What does Jung have to do with anything? You need to show your work. You're the one making the claim. It is your burden of proof.
quote:
So science already proceeds by the notion that it is fundamental and therefore essentially not measurable.
So why do they bother measuring it? How is it that they get results measuring something that you claim cannot be? Do they know that they're not actually capable of doing what they are doing?
quote:
I know for sure that you know nothing about freedom on an intellectual level, that when asked about it you will go meandering thinking it up at that particular moment, not having any knowledge at the ready. So your posing as being much knowledgeable about it, is at best a joke.
Non sequitur. Please rephrase.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Syamsu, posted 09-24-2008 4:34 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Syamsu, posted 09-24-2008 5:05 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 112 of 123 (483922)
09-24-2008 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Syamsu
09-24-2008 5:05 AM


Syamsu responds to me:
quote:
My burden is judgement on you.
Fine. But your burden is to support your claim.
quote:
There is no need for me to prove love is not a material thing, but a spiritual thing.
Burden of proof is always on the one making the claim.
Your claim.
Your burden of proof. I can justify my claim that science does recognize the existence of love and has even come up with ways to measure it.
Where is your evidence?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Syamsu, posted 09-24-2008 5:05 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 113 of 123 (483924)
09-24-2008 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Syamsu
09-24-2008 1:35 PM


Syamsu responds to onifre:
quote:
Your caustic laughing indicates you have objectified love, probably to a penis and vagina.
Knowing full well I might get banned for this:
Syamsu, we're not going to have sex with you. Please stop asking.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Syamsu, posted 09-24-2008 1:35 PM Syamsu has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024