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Author Topic:   A statement of my disbeliefs
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1429 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 19 of 87 (202400)
04-25-2005 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
04-25-2005 9:01 AM


I'm not sure if this is on topic or not. Let me know if not, and I'll take my questions / statements to another thread.
Reading here about belief and disbelief, I think there's an important difference between "having a reason to believe" and believing.
If belief is truly a choice, then it seems to me that it's meaningless to let "belief" be dictated by facts and evidence. At that point, it's not a choice, it's a scientific conclusion. As we're so fond of saying here, if you don't believe the evidence, you're some kind of ignorant dunce.
To me, belief / disbelief only matters when you're choosing--i.e. when you're not basing your choice on evidence. For example, Percy using his "gut" or somebody believing that life is better with God in it than without God in it.
So, getting back to your original point,
ME: The more I experience and the more I read on those forums and other places, the more I am convinced that the God of the christians and the muslims is a deadend - a construction of the human mind.
I would never disagree with you. My point is that, when it comes to belief, why does it matter if God is a construction of the human mind or not?
Like Percy says, he believes. There's no right or wrong, there's no evidence for or against God or Gods. The power of God or Gods is in choice. The power of God or Gods is in what it does for you, what it brings out of you.
You're not going to get conflicting evidence. It is possible to believe in God and in a naturalistic world. The two theories are not separable via evidence, they don't necessarily make unique predictions.
By waiting for evidence for God, you've already set your belief. Belief is a framework, an unsaid assumption that we use to interpret the world. Even if you saw something that "made" you believe in God, to anybody else it's explainable with other mechanisms, or unknown and in need of explanation. In other words, in the scientific sense of the word, it is not evidence.
I think we should operate under the principle that science will never find evidence for God. What then? To believe or not to believe in a God or Gods is completely up to your own choice. What do you choose then? Why?
What is left when a choice cannot be made on evidence?

That said, I don't believe in God. But I'm glad my mom does. It makes her a better person. And I wish some people I knew believed in God too. Godlessness is not for everybody, I think. In fact I think I may be better off with a God... but I haven't decided yet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 04-25-2005 9:01 AM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 04-26-2005 5:07 AM Ben! has replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1429 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 36 of 87 (206664)
05-10-2005 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
04-26-2005 5:07 AM


Re: Mind over Matter..if you don't mind,it does not matter!
...when it comes to belief, why does it matter if God is a construction of the human mind or not?
Some days I need two cups of coffee to get going. Some days, I can't find my car keys. Some days, my human mind is "under construction!" Please drive slowly around me. Do not honk.
Nah, I'm the guy who pulls up along side 'ya and peers inside to see if everything's ok... and then runs into a tree.
Does your comment mean, "I don't get it." ?
Anyway, all I was trying to say is that, if God can't be proven via evidence, then there's no way to differentiate between God existing and God not existing. It means, what happens in your life, the feelings inside you, everything--it can fit a model of the world where God exists, and one where God does not.
That's the great thing about faith--there's enough ambiguity there where you need to choose faith and stick to it no matter what. That's the whole point.
And that's my point--the good thing about faith has nothing to do with the actual truth of the matter. The "actual truth" will never be independently verifiable. And it doesn't matter. Life is the way it is, regardless of proof or logic. The interpretation and faith is inside.
That somehow sounds more confusing than ever. HONK HONK
What is left when a choice cannot be made on evidence?
Time...Love....and Communication. Its nice to chat once in awhile without having to make a point or defend a position.
Thanks for answering my question. I knew you'd give me an answer that makes me smile, even though I already thought the same kind of answer to myself.
Take care.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 04-26-2005 5:07 AM Phat has not replied

  
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