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Author Topic:   Raising Standards
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5133 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 166 of 264 (477769)
08-07-2008 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Larni
08-07-2008 4:37 AM


Re: A few assumptions and a question.
I am not alone in studying spiritual writings.
I am alone in working to publicize discovery, because to most people only those God inspired will make waves for public reception. A simple-minded individual like myself who endeavors to work with honest scientific research should give up all chance at producing a viable concern for publication because science does not hold water in the religious community.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Larni, posted 08-07-2008 4:37 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Larni, posted 08-07-2008 1:37 PM brendatucker has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 167 of 264 (477770)
08-07-2008 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 1:20 PM


Re: New things
brenda writes:
Then I have to convince you somehow that the members are not being made aware of the idea that I have on my own cognition induced (or deduced, who knows?) the concepts that do not conflict with any of the scientific data we have today, but would instead cause us to reorganize some of the data, such as kingdoms (human would become separate from animalia), etc.
But this is just apologetics. You are adding variables (where none are required) to make a religion fit with the evidence.
brenda writes:
Now, what I am asking you to do is to understand the ideas as they are presented within these two organizations, conceive as I did of how a new idea could develop from the simultaneous study of these two separate groups, and pinpoint what work I did that was not done previously.
Brenda: I beleive the xian bible is a work of fiction. This means I have no need for the concept of Girass (what ever the heell it is). Show me why I need it.
branda writes:
Now, we have information for which newcomers into the circle of influence which these two organizations hold to can use to make an informed decision about whether they would like to join forces with the organizations in question or perhaps make endeavors in parallel or intersecting directions.
But you are not providing any neutral ground where science and religion can come together and iron out their differences! All you are doing is proposing a 'just so story' that makes science and religion fit. For no reason other than one of apologetics.
brenda writes:
If you are considering living a spiritual life, perhaps you would want to hear the research findings of someone like myself who has attempted that life before you. I offer to you a discovery that can be verified by reading the available literature with this thought of evolution in mind. A girasas kingdom, if operating within the life of the human working on meditation for unity, etc., may be attracted to the purified form for the purpose of conducting its own girasas business rather than for the purpose of producing an independent advanced human being with complete autonomy.
Now, while you appear advanced and spiritual to many who may witness you or your work (take Deepak Chopra or Dalai Lama), it is likely that that human being is being held in suspended animation while the girasas is performing according to its limited abilities being immersed in a form far below its own advanced level of functioning.
Gibberish.
brenda writes:
You define for me what a girasas is, because I want to find out in an academic manner whether or not you have been lisening attentively to my explanations.
Good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:20 PM brendatucker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:40 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 168 of 264 (477771)
08-07-2008 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 1:25 PM


Re: A few assumptions and a question.
As I said. You are trying to square a circle that will not work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:25 PM brendatucker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:39 PM Larni has replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5133 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 169 of 264 (477772)
08-07-2008 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Larni
08-07-2008 1:37 PM


Re: A few assumptions and a question.
But people should listen to new ideas with promise of advancement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Larni, posted 08-07-2008 1:37 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Larni, posted 08-07-2008 1:47 PM brendatucker has not replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5133 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 170 of 264 (477773)
08-07-2008 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Larni
08-07-2008 1:35 PM


Re: New things
First we have to publish the idea and get real experts making heads and tails of it. I need authorities and I can't get them without media.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Larni, posted 08-07-2008 1:35 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Larni, posted 08-07-2008 1:45 PM brendatucker has not replied
 Message 173 by Coyote, posted 08-07-2008 1:47 PM brendatucker has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 171 of 264 (477774)
08-07-2008 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 1:40 PM


Re: New things
If it's so good a: explain why it is so good and b: explain why no one bar you thinks it's so ace?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:40 PM brendatucker has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 172 of 264 (477775)
08-07-2008 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 1:39 PM


Re: A few assumptions and a question.
brenda writes:
But people should listen to new ideas with promise of advancement. But people should listen to new ideas with promise of advancement.
But there is no promise of advancement without some conceptualisation of the theory; you provided neihter.
Explain better, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:39 PM brendatucker has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 173 of 264 (477776)
08-07-2008 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 1:40 PM


Re: New things
First we have to publish the idea and get real experts making heads and tails of it. I need authorities and I can't get them without media.
You can't get them without evidence.
So far there is far more evidence for the Easter Bunny than what you are preaching. Scientists are not going to bother with that kind of nonsense.
Please, take up stamp collecting, or bowling, or even golf! That's the ticket--golf! It will provide some good exercise for you, fresh air, and a new challenge. Doing that will be far more beneficial to all concerned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 1:40 PM brendatucker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 8:41 PM Coyote has replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5133 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 174 of 264 (477797)
08-07-2008 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Coyote
08-07-2008 1:47 PM


Thank God for Evolution
You can get notice for your experience in life without evidence. I stopped over at a new topic called Science Forums - Is it Science? - ThankGodForEvolution.com and tried to join in the conversation. I was immediately whiplashed with lunacy. Is that what I can expect for my whole life engaging others in conversation simply because I read and understand books that are "banned" elsewhere.
I looked into the book a little bit on the website and noticed that the author lays some serious morality issues on people. He discusses (I think) how we may at times fall under the influence of our hormones and commit wrongs due to bodily processes that we wouldn't ordinarily commit. Because of his lectures on this topic, people have become more comfortable with their "sins" and feel able to forgive themselves.
If we were to engage in a similar conversation regarding morality, I would have to somehow convince you that I like both life forms that I hope to meet in one body. I like certain activities, thoughts, practices, advancements, culture for the human and I like a different set of engaging circumstances for the girasas.
Do you think it would be possible to entertain the idea that we can at times address the human who is small, insignificant, uncertain, even shy and in a position of supplication with it being their turn to express and move and "possess" the mind and body that they share with this higher kingdom? And at other times when we are in particular situations that call for it, we address, make room for, provide conditions for the girasas because we care about living things and want to satisfy the needs that both living things have.
Dowd uses the word: "holon" in his blog and I had to find it in wikkipedia. Holon - Wikipedia(philosophy) The word was coined by Arthur Koestler in his book THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE. Here is an example of one author using a word, followed up with usage by Ken Keyes and Michael Dowd. Do you think it will ever make the dictionary?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Coyote, posted 08-07-2008 1:47 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Coyote, posted 08-07-2008 9:04 PM brendatucker has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 175 of 264 (477799)
08-07-2008 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 8:41 PM


Re: Thank God for Evolution
Dowd uses the word: "holon" in his blog and I had to find it in wikkipedia. Holon - Wikipedia(philosophy) The word was coined by Arthur Koestler in his book THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE. Here is an example of one author using a word, followed up with usage by Ken Keyes and Michael Dowd. Do you think it will ever make the dictionary?
I suspect we will find that word long before we will find "girasas."
I asked you to define that word, and to connect it to something real, a couple of hundred posts ago.
You keep using that term as if it meant something, but you have been unable to articulate to the rest of us any such meaning.
Why don't you just start with that one term, as I asked weeks ago? Try and convince us that the term has some meaning. To have meaning, it must connect to something, or describe something, that has some basis in reality.
Even terms as nebulous as "love" and "truth" can be defined, and associated with something real--no matter how subjective.
Try to do this with "girasas." Associate it with something that we can all agree is real, and define it in those terms. From your previous posts I get the impression that it associates with some mythical state of being that has never been documented. You have to go beyond that. Show us that this term is something that resides in the real world, not just in your imagination.
Or maybe follow my earlier suggestion and take up golf.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 8:41 PM brendatucker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 10:40 PM Coyote has replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5133 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 176 of 264 (477803)
08-07-2008 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Coyote
08-07-2008 9:04 PM


Girasas
What is your problem?
I went into depth on that word. Here is it again.
Jesus Christ speaks of a Kingdom of God; a kingdom of heaven. This kingdom of God I have given the name girasas.
In the chain of evolution described in THE SECRET DOCTRINE, we find 3 elemental kingdoms referred to as thought elementals, emotional elementals, and etheric elementals followed by minerals, plants, animals and humans. These 7 kingdoms undergo 7 rounds on 7 globes before they progress to the next kingdom. Animals pass 7 times around 7 globes making for 49 periods of descent/ascent (into form and out of form) before they become human. The humans on earth today were animals during the moon chain (The moon was the physical planet as the earth is now.) and after 49 separate globe occupations, we "graduated" to the human kingdom. When we began life in the earth chain, we began with the first globe on the first round and will continue as human until the seventh globe of the seventh round. After that we will no longer be human, but girasas.
Girasas are important to us (even though humans are the last of 7 kingdoms forced to make rounds in this manner) because they are instrumental in our ascension from each globe. The girasas kingdom is no longer required to make rounds as there is a limit of the 7 kingdoms which I described to you.
Science knows the kingdoms as four: protista, fungi, plantae, and animalia or five or six according to some division, and in order for these living things to be categorized in line with theosophy, we would designate a kingdom based on its existence through the passage of 7 rounds on 7 globes, meaning that minerals are also a living kingdom (however what we see on earth are shistas of the true evolving minerals and would be i (involving) or a (angelic) minerals and not an evolving kingdom which would likely be in existence on the 6th globe at this time since the animals may be descending through the plants on the 5th globe at this time which is one ahead of the earth.
We need the girasas to ascend us out of form life and into a state of existence that will allow us to descend into the animals that will be in their races (5th - 7th) on the 5th globe needing the humans to ascend them.
The girasas are nothing more than a kingdom of nature which evolved through all of the stages that humans evolved through, plus which completed their human evolution on the moon chain.
Humans have likewise evolved through all of the evolutionary kingdoms which operate on the earth chain at this time. It is an upward movement which follows cycles of globe occupation (the globes exist on a descent/ascent basis whereas the earth is the densest of the 7 globes and the 4th of the 7) and cycles which begin with the thought elementals and end with the humans.
Girasas is a kingdom of nature which Jesus Christ teaches about and which when present participates in the life of humans during their 5th through 7th races. During the 5th race, the girasas hover above us, influencing us when possible and drawing closer to us in consciousness and through knowing each other and interacting, the humans grow in consciousness and the girasas gain a foothold into form existence. Only they don't need the form because they no longer are limited to making rounds on globes. They live in a more interplanetary space. I don't know how or what their bodies are like, but the ascended masters who have been mankinds' teachers are examples of the powers and learning that a person with our form will be like when the girasas come close enough to act and speak and think through the human form.
During the 6th race, we are androgynous, which means we are half girasas and half human. Jesus Christ was an example of a 6th race human-girasas. He taught us about this kingdom or we wouldn't have known about them until they smacked us in the head.
A few people might make themselves ready for girasas descent and might show the rest of us how it is done. Purifying with living habits helps the girasas to take up residence in our forms because their way of living is much purer than the human's just as our ways are much purer and healthier than the animal's (for our thinking, feeling, and etiquette).
Edited by brendatucker, : under to undergo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Coyote, posted 08-07-2008 9:04 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Coyote, posted 08-07-2008 11:24 PM brendatucker has replied
 Message 178 by Larni, posted 08-08-2008 3:54 AM brendatucker has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 177 of 264 (477806)
08-07-2008 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 10:40 PM


Re: Girasas
I asked:
Try to do this with "girasas." Associate it with something that we can all agree is real, and define it in those terms.
You have defined "girasas" in anything but real terms. You are speaking more like a mystic of some kind.
You keep speaking about all of the these odd concepts and terms as if that made them real; it does not.
Relate these terms and concepts to something real.
Defining mythology in terms of other mythology does not make any of them real. As an old archaeologist I knew would have said, "You're just slicing the baloney thinner."

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 10:40 PM brendatucker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by brendatucker, posted 08-08-2008 1:00 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 178 of 264 (477819)
08-08-2008 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by brendatucker
08-07-2008 10:40 PM


Re: Girasas
brenda writes:
We need the girasas to ascend us out of form life and into a state of existence that will allow us to descend into the animals that will be in their races (5th - 7th) on the 5th globe needing the humans to ascend them.
Finally!
Now I understand what you mean by girasas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by brendatucker, posted 08-07-2008 10:40 PM brendatucker has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 179 of 264 (477863)
08-08-2008 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Coyote
08-01-2008 12:24 PM


Heinlein is quite the philosopher, yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Coyote, posted 08-01-2008 12:24 PM Coyote has not replied

  
brendatucker
Member (Idle past 5133 days)
Posts: 168
From: West Hills, CA
Joined: 05-22-2008


Message 180 of 264 (477864)
08-08-2008 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Coyote
08-07-2008 11:24 PM


Re: Girasas
So then in order to invite other people into a discussion that will be beneficial to both parties, we tell them about what we read at The Theosophical Society and at The Saint Germain Foundation.
I would imagine that you have not read any of this material. In that sense, it is not only the word girasas that is foreign to you, but also this entire realm where I have centered my investigations.
Let me try setting the scene again. There is a book called THE YOGA SUTRAS OF PATANJALI that is said to be over 2000 years old from India. This book describes in Book 1: The Problem of Union, Book 2: The Steps to Union, Book 3: Union Achieved and its Results, Book 4: Illumination
People who read this book read that they can gain powers by meditation. It is a common Hindu practice and belief.
So how can someone raised in the United States attempt to understand how meditation can release powers in us? Well, we try meditation and after a good trial, we can judge for ourselves whether there is any validity to the claim.
For many years, I have studied theosophy and "I AM" Temple literature. What I read in the first book that began me on this journey: THE YOGA SUTRAS OF PATANJALI is still the most basic and thorough numbered listing (aphorisms) of the yoga scene that I ever encountered. What did modern people design to compete with the Hindu Yoga scene?
The granddaughter of a princess from Russia travels the world, engages in mediumship, writes as a journalist to make a living, and before her death writes THE SECRET DOCTRINE, after founding The Theosophical Society at the request of her "Masters." (1875-1890 approx.)
A musician married to a geologist live together in the United States. He writes of an experience he had with "Masters" in California and the two of them begin communications which result in the founding of The Saint Germain Foundation. (1930s-1950s approx.)
While I am associating with these two groups, I can't exactly participate in Christianity, but I remember from my childhood what worship, doctrine, and practice is.
There is a creation versus evolution debate in which scientists wish to engage the beliefs of Christians concerning whether or not The Bible is a reliable source of information since scientific findings appear to refute what we read there at times.
Christians stand firm. I did not stand firm. I investigated on my own after stimulation from THE YOGA SUTRAS that I could gain powers by meditation.
During my studies, I encountered many mysteries and a good deal of divisiveness. People divide because our minds and hearts prefer a type of isolation for growth and satisfaction. We specialize in our chosen fields and are often grateful that distractions don't upset the balance of things where we choose to be.
By my joining this debate, do I threaten to end a peaceful coexistence that has been achieved between religion and science?
Which side of the debate am I on? Is anyone on my side? I have a new theory and I don't know who would find my theory useful, inviting, worth research dollars, etc. But regardless of how many can be employed by my work, there should still be a comraderie among all of this division that allows us to put ourselves back into school with each other where learning was fun, where we didn't have to pay bills, and where we could ask questions without too much fear.
Is the world of the religious person real to the world of the scientist? We use different texts. We (investigators of religion) want to create our world by building people up into talented contributing members of society. We are creationists because The Bible helps us to reach our goals.
Scientists want to seek out details about creation. To answer questions that they and others have and to find solutions to very real problems that make us unable to function healthily. By scientists providing health to the environment and to inhabitants of the environment, they are performing a great service. Scientists deserve their followers, their funds, their storehouses of great knowledge, and their esteem. No argument.
Do I threaten you because I talk about things that are beyond your level of expertise? By asking scientists to participate in the findings and ponderings of religion, do we throw your minds out of balance so that you might not be able to work?
How would you create a healthy environment if someone informed you of this power that is invading the earth? Well, you would probably fund a committee to look into the situation until you could assess whether or not there was any real danger or any possibility of averting a disastrous outcome.
Is human extinction a disastrous outcome? What if I provided you with a scenario whereby all kingdoms go extinct, but there is nothing to fear because they return to life on the next globe (after globe after globe) and the next round (after round after round). This information would likely not change too greatly what you view to be your job. You need to work at improving the quality of our life by keeping track of occurrences at the molecular and chemical levels.
People in religion can help you in ways you may not have expected or predicted. Regardless of how we got here or whether extinction is desireable or not, it might be possible for a scientist to get re-introduced to religion if they considered that people are so drawn to it because we attempt to contact a higher kingdom, gain power, and create a better world for ourselves. We don't like doing this without you because we think you do a great job of analyzing the data and providing us with answers (and questions). Yet you don't attest to our willingness to part with human superiority.
Humans are fallible, but with science perhaps you will make us less so, you think. To us, creating and changing the world we live in means reaching upward to higher beings that are real because we are so much stronger with them than we are alone.
Here I am barely with a Bachelor's Degree in psychology, coming to you to offer my research findings, because you have been averse to belief, but if there is a higher kingdom that needs human beings as much as we need them due to this cycle thing, then communication with those higher beings necessitates belief because they have an entire globe chain of living done beyond what we have done and we are as incompetent to them as the animals are at changing and creating the world to us.
Why do we believe? Could it help a scientist to open their minds to the possibility that a higher being could also contribute to their work if the mindset wasn't so exclusive? We love and worship together and we think that 10 x what we give flows back to us from higher beings. They could influence your thinking and acting and help you to be less inclined to errors or mistakes.
We want our children to know about a storehouse of strength and knowledge that can be theirs for the asking (with some effort on their parts to provide for the life of these beings as needed). We ask you to teach the children about the world we live in and we see these higher beings as instrumental in our success and well being, but somehow science still doesn't reach to them. We want our children to know that after careful thought and study, the right way seems to be to involve this higher kingdom in any way we can or design to. It will be up to them to lead teams into contact with them, in religion or outside religion, it is all the same. It's people that the higher beings want contact with and not architecture or ritual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Coyote, posted 08-07-2008 11:24 PM Coyote has not replied

  
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