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Member (Idle past 5132 days) Posts: 168 From: West Hills, CA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Raising Standards | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
How do we test this hypothesis of yours?
Scientific theories make predictions which can be tested against nature. Scientific theories, including evolution, have been verified by such processes. What observable predictions are made as a logical consequence of your theory?How can we verify or refute your hypothesis?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
So, in short, you do not have an objectively physically verifiable hypothesis at all.
I am afraid that until you do your views will be considered as unscientific, subjective, mystical nonsense that has little link with reality and no real worth in terms of being considered any further. You really do need to formulate a testable hypothesis if you want anyone to take this at all seriously.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You are interpreting physical evidence in terms of a preconceived pilosophical position.
The only way to ensure that your conclsions are not simply delusional is to test them against nature.You need to make predictions regarding the nature of new evidence that is the logical consequence of your theory and which seperates it from the competing theories. Effectively you need to make a prediction of new physical evidence that could not be made by standard evolutionary theory. Can you do this?If not why should we even consider your theory as an alternative to evolutionary theory which has passed such objective tests?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Alternate explanations for know phenomenon are not objective, are not predictions and in no way verify your preconceived conclusions.
Predictions of new phenomenon that are a direct consequence of your theory and which seperate it from evolutionary theory. Do you have any?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU.... Like me?
need to familiarize yourself with current theories of the day in order to produce factual results for the population at large. I don't need to familiarise myself with your, or anybody elses, untestable, unverifiable personal pet theory.As far as I am concerened we have a phsyically tested predictively verified theory of evolution. Unless you can at the very least match those predictions in terms of physical evidence your "theory" (such as it is) will always be inferior to evolutionary theory. Obviously.
I need to be recognized Surely you can see that it is not up to you to decide that you should be recognised? On what basis should anybody else give any credence to your untestable unverifiable ideas?
Yeah, thanks for pinning all of this type of work on me. You like to give assignments to me, when I am working to disperse the work to others more qualified. Why does this workload have to fall on my shoulders? Well it is your theory. Therefore it is up to you to explain it and back it up. If you are incapable of presenting it in objective or verifiable terms then I won't waste my time any further.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
My prediction of new phenomena which have in the past separated it from evolutionary theory are that books from sources outside the human will continue to be received by humans. We can't predict what will be found as content in these books, however we can encourage the study of these books rather than delegate them to a wasteland only to have to REASSESS those books at a later period due to an unwillingness to study at the level they are written. If scholars had been doing their jobs all along, these books would never have been excluded from university studies. They are monstrous unraveling of clues which students should be inclined to occupy their time with rather than a mass of memorization. I thought you were proposing an alternative to evolutionary theory?Yet your only prediction is a deeply subjective and frankly slightly bonkers assessmnet as to the origin of various books? Your theories are a waste of time. I'll leave you to decalre just how much the rest of the world is missing out by not listening to you......
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
If I asked you to define the word evolution, you would resort back to what you have learned by the study of science Words are defined by their use. Scientists consistently use the term to describe a commonly understood evidence based concept.
Yet, I am offering you a new exploration into the world of evolution. You are offering an un-evidenced and untestable subjective pet theory. You are apparently offering this as an alternative to a highly physically evidenced, established, predictively verified theory. Why would we swap this theory for your unevidenced one?
This new evolution I report from my studies, involves a new set of laws and includes a new data set, involving kingdom. Your laws etc. etc. are just deeply subjective personal interpretations of evidence.
I'm sure I'm going to stand up and wow you with what you thought were evolving plants and animals are merely remains from the time that evolving plants and animals were here AND the addition of angels Is there any objective physical evidence for angels or any of the rest of this nonsense? In the absence of any objective natural physical evidence for your theory why should anyone give your deeply subjective pet theory a moment of their time? Why?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
But why are you asking me to do this? I give it to you to do. We ask you to backup your claims yourself because - 1) We already have a perfectly good theory of evolution2) Your theories sound like mad unevidenced nonsense Why should we look for your alternative if it sounds like drivel and even you are unable to explain to us why it is anything other than nonsense?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You probably like your theory because it belittles religion and causes religious to feel like castouts. Your assumptions regarding my motivations are as subjective, unevidenced and frankly wrong as your whole alternative "theory".I know many theists who have absolutely no problem with the theory of evolution. Those who advocate the theory of evolution do so because it is an extremely powerful explanatory theory backed up by a wealth of physical evidence and predictive objectively verified tests. What has happened is that some very good legitimate work has gone unacclaimed - typical in your world - and there has been years and years of serious controversy. Please explain why a wholly subjective unevidenced and untestable theory should be considered legitimate or worthwhile by anybody else? This is the question you seem totally unwilling to confront.You seem totally unwilling to even consider the idea of objective evidence, prediction, testing etc. etc. as the hallmarks of a valid theory. Learn to cover the field. Allow others to speak out and express what they know. Consider the possibilities so that our science doesn't get stuck in the mire. I have something new, but you insist on following some code of ethics rather than embrace a future for man. No one, not even you, can familiarise themselves with every crackpot theory that has ever arisen.A new theory needs to at least match the predictive power of the theory it seeks to surpass. There are countless unevidenced theories that makes no predictions but which purport to reveal magnificent "truths" that the rest of us somehow missed. Why is yours any different? My question to you is what makes your theory any more valid than that of the guy I met on the bus last week who had spent the last 20 years documenting and compiling "evidence" that the human race is the direct result of an underground martian civilisation's biological experiment gone wrong?He had folders bursting with "proof", anecdotal evidence etc. etc. etc. Do you feel the need to familiarise yourself with his work?
I have something new, but you insist on following some code of ethics rather than embrace a future for man The future of man is not enhanced by taking on board the pet theories of every fanatic or nutcase that claims that they have access to a truth that the rest of us have somehow failed to see. If your theories can be objectively demonstrated to be worth investigation they will be investigated. But unless there is a reason to differentiate you from the 'lunatics on the bus' that is exactly where you and your theories will remain. On the bus. Going nowhere. Don't blame everyone else for your inability to raise yourself and your theory above the 'lunatic on the bus' level. The fault lies with either your or the inadequacy of your theory. Or both.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Why would someone take the time as H.P.B. did to follow the directions she was given and labor over the tediously long dissertation that she presented in numerous volumes? So that her work could be discarded by our schools? Why does anyone get caught up and obsessed with such things? Probably because they subjectively believe them to be true.I don't doubt her, or your, sense of conviction and belief. I do however doubt the validity of those beliefs. It is up to you to present your beliefs in such a way as make them convincing. Simply saying "I have done lots of research, I know the truth. Follow me" is just silly.
She offers an explanation for evolution that is not currently evaluated by year after year of students and in that way our society is ignorant. An untestable, unscientific, deeply subjective explanation. Why should we investigate this any more than the theories of my aforementioned bus dwelling proponent of underground martian civilisations? Would you have students assess his lifetime of work as well? Would we invite everyone with a pet theory into the classrooms of the world such that they can be assessed?
What can you do about it? I can ask for objective, physical evidence and methods of predictive testing. If provided I can assess the validity of the theory by the same standards as every other scientific theory.If unable to be provided I can reliably conclude that the theory in question is almost certainly a wholly subjective pet theory based on the delusional ramblings of a well meaning but not to be taken seriously eccentric.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I will ask again.
Why is your theory any more worthy of investigation, research, time , money or consideration than that of my 'friend' on the bus who has spent the last 20 years demonstrating that the human race is the product of a disastrous experiment undertaken by a peaceful underground lizard-like race of martians who now live in fear of their creation (i.e. us) discovering their existence? He has 20 years of research under his belt. He was apparently a highly qualified structural engineer in his yourth. He has numerous pieces of anecdotal and coincidental pieces of "evidence" to back up his claim. He is trying to get his findings published (with no success unsurprisingly) and is as equally convinced as you that if people would just listen his revolutionary new theory then large parts of modern science would be overthrown. On what basis is your theory to be taken more seriously than this or any other of the millions of crackpot theories that exist in the minds of obviously delusional individuals?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
So basically you can demonstrate no more worth to your theory than can be demonstrated by any of the other multitude of untestable, subjective pet theories promoted by delusional fanatics and guardians of the "truth" around the globe.
Just remember what I told you about girasas and involving kingdoms and shistas I suspect most have forgotten already.Oh well. Never mind.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Why don't you just state your case. Simply, factually and with the objective physical evidence laid bare for all to examine?
Forget the frills, the pseudo-philosophical ramblings, the statements of persecution etc. etc. You have yet to say anything that is remotely scientific so how do you expect to convince anyone? Especially scientists.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You continue to offer no reliable evidence for your beliefs.
Shall I put you in contact with my bus travelling friend? (the one with the martian experiment hypothesis) On what grounds is his theory not worthy of your consideration?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Yes yes yes. If I just took what you say to be true on faith, if I abandoned the requirement for evidence based objectivity, if I submit myself to the one true "way" then my life will be enriched and I will "know" the "truth".
This is textbook delusional evangelism on your part.You are no different to my friend on the bus. Except perhaps that his martian origins hypothesis is at least testable in principle.
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